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  1. #21

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    my point precisely. I appreciated honesty more than cool stories; if I want a cool story I'll read a book or watch a movie.

    One thing I noticed while checking out the instructor's website in that was mentioned to be in Port Richey- they have a student handbook that gives the "history" of the style. They don't acknowledge KSW at all- instead they go with the whole "kung jung mu sul is one of 3 traditional martial arts..." line. Very disappointing :(

  2. #22
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Gungjeong Musul exists as a classification of martial arts, not a style itself...regardless, if the system is a KSW derivative, they do not teach Gungjeong musul. Period.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by brihno360 View Post
    my point precisely. I appreciated honesty more than cool stories; if I want a cool story I'll read a book or watch a movie.

    One thing I noticed while checking out the instructor's website in that was mentioned to be in Port Richey- they have a student handbook that gives the "history" of the style. They don't acknowledge KSW at all- instead they go with the whole "kung jung mu sul is one of 3 traditional martial arts..." line. Very disappointing :(
    Yea took a look myself if you took out the words "kung jung mu sul" and replaced them with "Kuk Sool Won" it would be exactly the same history. Now that alone wouldn't be wrong if the fact that Soon Tae Yang had mentioned that he studied Kuk Sool Won under Grandmaster Suh. But the omission of that makes the history of both styles seem bogus. Kuk Sool Won is a good MA I just wish someone would set the record straight.

  4. #24

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    Not to be a trouble maker, but do we actually have any access to verifiable proof that Soon Tae Yang was in fact KSW- the reason I ask is that I want to be fair in my criticism of the GM's honesty (or lack thereof).

    @bodhi108: could you elaborate a bit more on what you said? I'd like to understand the actual structure better in terms of what would be considered Kung Jung Mu Sul Vs what is not (obviously ignoring the part about KSW since it's clearly a modern art, not a historical one).

  5. #25

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    just for giggles heres the link to the student handbook PDF:
    http://kjmsofflorida.com/docs/StudentHandbook.pdf

    It is also interesting that they refer to him as kwan jang + rest of title, my impression of this word from reading Richard Chun's book was that is more of an informal term- Chun says he was kwan jang of his group of friends as a child-
    Last edited by brihno360; 4/05/2011 9:47pm at . Reason: adding more crap to post

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by brihno360 View Post
    Not to be a trouble maker, but do we actually have any access to verifiable proof that Soon Tae Yang was in fact KSW- the reason I ask is that I want to be fair in my criticism of the GM's honesty (or lack thereof).

    @bodhi108: could you elaborate a bit more on what you said? I'd like to understand the actual structure better in terms of what would be considered Kung Jung Mu Sul Vs what is not (obviously ignoring the part about KSW since it's clearly a modern art, not a historical one).
    I've been practicing Kuk Sool Won for 27 years and I remember him from videos of Kuk Sool Won demonstrations. Trust me he was definitely a Kuk Sool Won Master. If you say that Kuk Sool Won is a modern art, well then Kung Jung Mu Sul is most definitely a more modern art because the Grand Master of that Art is teaching what he learned in Kuk Sool Won. A more accurate definition would be that Kuk Sool Won is a modern approach to teaching ancient Martial Traditions. Which, by the way you could say about most other arts as well.

  7. #27

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    Well, according to Bodhi108's post above, Kung jung mu sul is in fact a historical group of martial arts. I think the idea here is that Soon Tae Yang just used the name for his style, which is fine I guess, but if he is in fact teaching stuff based on KSW (also fine) then it is not really "the real" KJMS as was used in ancient Korea.

    This is the sticking point for me- if he says he called it that because he was inspired by it fine- if he says it's the real stuff from ancient Korean castles- which is what the handbook seems to say- then it's disingenuous.

    Note that this has nothing at all to do with the actual fight effectiveness of the style.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by brihno360 View Post
    Well, according to Bodhi108's post above, Kung jung mu sul is in fact a historical group of martial arts. I think the idea here is that Soon Tae Yang just used the name for his style, which is fine I guess, but if he is in fact teaching stuff based on KSW (also fine) then it is not really "the real" KJMS as was used in ancient Korea.

    This is the sticking point for me- if he says he called it that because he was inspired by it fine- if he says it's the real stuff from ancient Korean castles- which is what the handbook seems to say- then it's disingenuous.

    Note that this has nothing at all to do with the actual fight effectiveness of the style.
    Yea I agree, It's more a play on words than a different system I think. If I remember correctly the split from Kuk Sool Won was civil in that Grandmaster Yang had the blessing of Grandmaster Suh to go his own way. Out of respect for his teacher he used the KJMS label to designate his system.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obewan View Post
    I've been practicing Kuk Sool Won for 27 years and I remember him from videos of Kuk Sool Won demonstrations. Trust me he was definitely a Kuk Sool Won Master. If you say that Kuk Sool Won is a modern art, well then Kung Jung Mu Sul is most definitely a more modern art because the Grand Master of that Art is teaching what he learned in Kuk Sool Won. A more accurate definition would be that Kuk Sool Won is a modern approach to teaching ancient Martial Traditions. Which, by the way you could say about most other arts as well.
    Ditto. Wayne Murray of KSW once told me that Yang Soon Tae was a KSW guy.
    I have no idea what Wayne is doing nowadays.
    SEANBABY:
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  10. #30

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    ah back to this thread. from what they told me at the dojo or whatever the main leader of the school used to be a big ksw guy but after a whole bunch of arguing he took out alot of the changes they made from when he started and just taught what he learned. least thats what i got out of it

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