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  1. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 12:29am

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     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Combat Sports in Olympics

    The conversation in the "BJJ in the Olympics" thread has got me wondering. Which combat sport would you most want to see in the Olympics? Would it have the support to get in? Would IOC water it down?
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  2. slideyfoot is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 8:24am

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As J Sho said in that thread I linked, I would say the first thing to consider is does it meet the IOC criteria. To c&p J-Sho:

    Quote Originally Posted by J Sho
    The Olympic Programme Commission, in their report to the 117th IOC Session stated that they had developed a set of 33 criteria to be used in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of each potential/current Olympic sport and the 'value' that each sport adds to the Olympic Programme. (you can read the methodology and the assessments of all Olympic sports in the link above, pretty interesting reading).

    The criteria break down into the following categories:



    • History and Tradition
    • Universality
    • Popularity
    • Image and Environment
    • Athlete Welfare
    • Development and Costs.


    Each of these areas then has objectively analysed criteria.


    History and Tradition
    Establishment

    • Date of establishment of the International Federation (IF)


    Olympic Games


    • Introduction to the Olympic Programme
    • Number of times on the Olympic Programme (Benchmark "Strong tradition" = 20 participations and more)


    World Championships


    • Date of 1st World Championships
    • Number of World Championships held to date
    • Frequency of World Championships


    Other Multi-sports Games


    • Is sport on the programme of the last All African Games, Pan-American Games, Asian Games, Commonwealth Games or Universiade?)

    Recognised IFs - World Games

    • Number of times on the World Games programme

    Universality
    MEMBER NATIONAL FEDERATIONS

    • Number of Member National Federations
    • Number of Member National Federations compared to maximum number of NOCs (brackets)


    ACTIVE MEMBER NATIONAL FEDERATIONS


    • Percentage of National Federations that organised national championships in 2003-2004
    • Percentage of National Federations that took part in qualifying events for the Athens 2004 Olympic Games
    • Percentage of National Federations that took part in the last IF Continental Championships
    • Recognised IFs - Percentage of National Federations that tookpart in qualifying events for the World Games 2001


    GLOBAL SPREAD OF EXCELLENCE


    • Number of medals awarded at the Athens 2004 Olympic Games
    • Number of NOCs that won medals at the Athens 2004 OlympicGames
    • Continental distribution of medals won at the Athens 2004 Olympic Games

    Popularity
    PARTICIPATION OF BEST ATHLETES IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES


    • Extent to which best athletes would compete


    TICKET SALES AND ATTENDANCE



    • Average percentage of the total of number tickets available sold at Sydney 2000 Olympic Games and Athens 2004 Olympic Games


    MEDIA ACCREDITATION REQUESTS



    • Average number of media accreditation requests at the last two World Championships


    TELEVISION COVERAGE

    Olympic Games



    • Average number of hours of television coverage per day of competition during the Athens 2004 Olympic Games
    • Average prime time viewers hours per day of competition during the Athens 2004 Olympic Games


    World Championships



    • Number of countries where the last two World Championships were broadcast
    • Number of countries that paid for TV rights for the last two World Championships
    • Income from the sale of TV rights for the World Championships


    PRESS COVERAGE



    • Total number of articles from 30 July to 12 September 2004
    • Average number of articles per publication from 30 July to 12 September 2004


    NEW MEDIA PENETRATION



    • Average daily number of visits to IF's official website in 2003
    • Average daily number of visits to IF's official website during the last World Championships
    • Number of visits to the sport page of the IOC website (1 January 2004 Ė 11 February 2005)


    MAJOR SPONSORS



    • Five major sponsors of the IF and kind of benefits provided

    Image and Environment
    GENDER EQUITY


    • In the sport Percentage of Member National Federations (corresponding to the number of National Federations affiliated to the IF)that took part in qualifying events for the Athens 2004 Olympic Games: comparison of female VS male participation
    • Recognised IFs - Percentage of Member National Federations (corresponding to the number of National Federations affiliated to the IF) that took part in qualifying events for the World Games 2001: comparison of female VS male participation
    • In the IF governing bodies Composition of Executive Board (or equivalent)

    TRANSPARENCY AND FAIRNESS ON THE FIELD OF PLAY

    • Impact of judging on the result of the sportís competition
    • Judging/refereeing system and steps taken to train,certificate, select and evaluate judges and referees

    INCREASING APPEAL OF THE SPORT

    • Steps taken by the IF with a view to presenting its sport in the most interesting and attractive manner

    ENVIRONMENT

    • Existence of an IFís environmental programme and action plans
    • Impact of the sport on the environment

    Athlete Welfare

    ATHLETE REPRESENTATION Role of athletes in the IFís global decision-making process,in particular with respect to its Athletesí Commission

    ANTI-DOPING


    • Number of out-of-competition tests 2002 and 2003

    Development

    DEVELOPMENT OF THE IF Strategic planning

    • Existence of a four-year strategic planning process and details

    Finance

    • Share of the Federationís income from Olympic revenues (2000-2003)
    • Share of the Federationís income generated by marketing and broadcasting (2000-2003)
    • Income from the sale of TV rights for the World Championships 2000-2003

    DEVELOPMENT OF THE SPORT

    • Summary of the three main development programmes run by the IF between 2001 and 2004
    • Summary of the financial distribution system used by the IF to support its national federations and continental associations

    Costs

    VENUES COSTS AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES

    • Costs for venue to stage event
    • Technology requirements at competition venues
    • Television production cost

    Sports 'recognised' by the IOC

    Some sports and disciplines are not part of the current Olympic program, but are recognized by the IOC. Their respective International Sport Federations are responsible for ensuring that the sport's activities follow the Olympic Charter.

    A recognized sport may be added to the Olympic program in future Games, by recommendation of the IOC Olympic Programme Commission and a vote by IOC members. The IOC voted on July 11, 2005 to remove baseball and softball from the Olympic program for 2012 (reaffirmed by vote on February 9, 2006 ) but also rejected their replacement with karate and squash (selected from a list that also included golf, roller sports and rugby sevens).

    Recognised sports include Sumo, Golf, Karate and Polo.

    The World Games

    The World Games, first held in 1981, are an international multi-sport event, meant for sports that are not contested in the Olympic Games. The World Games are organised and governed by the International World Games Association (IWGA), under the patronage of the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

    Some of the sports that were on the program of the World Games eventually made it as Olympic sports (such as triathlon) or have been Olympic sports in the past (like tug of war). Participation in past World Games is included in the evaluation criteria used to select new Olympic sports adopted by the IOC on August 12, 2004. However, with the current position of the IOC to limit the Olympic Games to 10,500 participants, it is unlikely than many of the World Games sports will be elevated to the Olympic sports.
  3. bobyclumsyninja is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 9:19am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to see mma fighters in the Olympics, and other worldwide athletic competitions. Amateurs though, as the pro's are mainly from four or five countries, on an elite level, at least.

    That would get plenty of women into mma, fueling calls for a female ufc division. Unfortunately, it might be easier to force a ufc Ladies division, that getting them fighting mma rules in the Olympics.

    I'd wet myself with glee were they to put combat sambo in there. That would be great, and mma fighters could compete under those rules, as they loosely resemble mma rules, relative to other sports. Also less likelyhood of a bloodbath, than mma rules, which sponsors wouldn't like.

    History and Tradition
    Universality
    Popularity
    Image and Environment
    Athlete Welfare
    Development and Costs.
    from the criteria above, IMO mma would have more luck in getting in than combat sambo, due to it's relative universality, and heightened popularity.

    The sport is getting so big, and popular with the youth, that I doubt the Olympics can ignore it for ever. Change is gonna come.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 3/14/2011 9:24am at .
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 9:23am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you really have to address the underlying motives for why people want to get their combat sport into the Olympics. What does the Olympics have to offer a sport like BJJ, Muay Thai, MMA, Sub-grappling etc...?

    In my view the Olympics offers legitimacy. It offers multiple layers of legitimacy.

    Firstly it offers legitimacy through recognition. People will see the sport being reported on during Olympic coverage, it will be on tv and they may happen across it. It puts the sport into the public consciousness. Judo is a good example if you ask people what they know about Judo they will probably turn to the Olympics for reference.

    It offers legitimacy as a sport. Often in arguments over is it a sport the common point of reference for most people is inclusion in the Olympics. A common simplistic argument against classifiying activities such as cheer leading or dancing as sports is to point to their exclusion from the Olympics. If your activity is in the Olympics it is a legitimate sport.

    It offers moral legitimacy. Doping scandals and other nefarious activity aside, the Olympics is seen as the paragon of sporting morality. Sports included in its programme have a moral authority that sports excluded lack. A simplistic example of this is Boxing and MMA. Boxing is an Olympic sport therefore it is seen as a legitimate sport and has a moral authority to be a sport based on its Olympic pedigree. There are of course many other factors legitimising it as a sport, but the Olympics plays a key role.

    Could you imagine someone succesfully arguing that it would be immoral to hold events for an Olympic sport at Madison square gardens? That campaign wouldn't get very far. As everyone could say that if that sport can take place on the highest profile and most morally authoritative sporting platform in the world why exclude it from New York or elsewhere.

    The Olympics offer financial legitimacy. IOC regulations and the requisite NGBs that go along with Olympic inclusion offer well run and respectable faces for the sport. That governments can channel money into to support and which can help generate revenue for grass roots growth and elite level athlete support. Not to say that Olympic status eliminates money worries ask any Judoka in the US or UK whether they're rich and they'll tell you no. However, it creates legitimate streams through which revenue can be directed into the sport and the athletes.

    So if you're a BJJ, MMA or Sub-grappling guy Olympic membership must look quite attractive to you because it offers all those forms of legitimacy to your sport and allows you to effectively counter many arguments against the expansion, funding and future of your sport.

    Personally I would like to see Muay Thai at the Olympics, because its cool.
  5. bobyclumsyninja is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 9:57am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally I would like to see Muay Thai at the Olympics, because its cool.
    If they added Muay Thai, the Chinese would want to bring the SanDa fighters in to challenge. There would be a giant shitup over what ruleset would occur. The Chinese would threaten trade sanctions, and voila....Muay Chi is born. The Chinese then patent the punch, and roundkick, and finally, sue Dana White for control of the UFC, due to it's intellectual property violations. Soon, not wearing red in an mma match is an automatic 10-9 first round, and anyone not sporting a horrible haircut (creepy glasses optional) can't be champ.

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  6. Cannon_6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2011 11:03am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to see Shootboxing.

    Would it have the necessary support? Very doubtful.

    Would the IOC water it down? Signs point to yes.
  7. Outis is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 12:42am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I vote for pankration, which could be distinguished from MMA by getting rid of the MMA gloves. This could be emphasized as a safety factor, reducing the likelihood of brain damage because participants wouldn't be able to throw as forceful a punch to the head for fear of injuring their hands. (Video of Tank Abbott vs John Matua could be used to underscore the point, that being the introduction of MMA gloves into the UFC.) Besides, pankration has the historical connection thing going for it, being an ancient Olympic sport for about a millennium.
  8. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 12:53am

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     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have trouble believing that the IOC would be willing to support any bare-knuckle combat sport. But I too think Pankration would be a good addition. It has all the benefits of MMA without the stigma of being "cagefighting". That, and its origination in Ancient Greek olympics would make it a much easier sell. The increasing popularity of MMA helps with the Universality and Popularity requirements, because it would be an easy transition for many MMA fighters.
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  9. crackhead is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2011 9:12pm


     Style: judo/jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Didnt they try to get pankration in the olympics before?
  10. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/22/2011 9:55pm

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     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know. They could always try again. Many Olympic sports had to be submitted more than once before finally making the cut.
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    "You all just got fucking owned.";
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