My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.
Posted On:3/10/2011 2:17pm
Style: Kodokan Judo
Yeah, that's a transition position for sure, although as JNP suggested, someone very good at pinning can maintain from their depending on how good their partner is. From there you are basically going to adjust your position according to how your partner reacts.
Learning how to keep pressure on takes a lot of practice and experience (to the OP). You can start with side control holding on, to holding with the hands/arms/legs in positions of less and less control with different levels of resistance from your partner, transitioning from position to position against the normal escape moves. Eventually, you can use minimal hands/arms for control and use more of shifting body weight for control,which frees up your hands/arms for submissions.
Posted On:3/10/2011 11:15pm
Thanks for the response guys, the first pic in the "Saulo being awesome in general" link is the position I am talking about. The article link in general is a pretty good overview of the dvd.
My side control in general is pretty good, since I have focused on "caging the hips" (blocking the inside hip with knee and outer hip with elbow). My transitions to the various side control positions are ok.
It seems to be an uncommon position as most guys are surprised when you use it on them. I think the success from the position comes from the weight that is put on your hips when on the bottom, forcing you to do something, either:
1) Try to trap the top guys closest leg with your leg, not very high percentage.
2) Hip escape and risk the inside arm being controlled and the top guy going to kuzure kesa gatame, paper cutter choke, cross face, north-south.
3) Push up on the chest, similar to 2)
4) Just bridge and waste energy.
I really like the position in general just for the knee on belly transition shown and the fact it is pretty easy to get to after passing guard. I while ago I had a 65kg bjj black belt put this side control on me and the weight on my hips was incredible, no matter what I did I could not escape and only put my self in worse positions. When I asked him about this he said he did not really prefer this style of side control and it would be better to talk to someone else who does.
From the responses given it seems that it is not a common position in judo, what about Sambo?
Any comments for Saulo students or anyone else who uses or has seen someone else use this side control.
Posted On:3/11/2011 6:03am
Well as has been said its a tranisitional position so you might move through it on the way to an actual hold down or submission, but I doubt anyone would hang out there.
Its taken me a while to realise it, cuz stupid, but I actually have the dvd the image comes from and now I remember seeing the guy demonstrate it as an example of controlling the hips and I've actually used this position maybe once or twice to demo that principle.
Posted On:3/15/2011 4:19am
I have a lot of success playing this position.
The key is controlling the far elbow. If you underhook it with your far arm, you have a lot of control.
I love getting a collar grip with close arm on the close side, underhook the far elbow then let them shrimp away straight into a tight and nasty step over choke. Even blues will give you a WTFWT kind of look after you tap them.
Here's a pretty average clip (but the best I could find): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0NvsQOZHL0
Hey - mrh80, I'm in Sydney. Where do you train?
Last edited by henno; 3/15/2011 4:48am at .
Reason: The question
Posted On:3/15/2011 5:09pm
Ok I found some more stuff on the hip on hip side control.
1) Xande has come out with an instructional and has a preview of the hip on hip on the side control dvd. He covers maintaining control when the opponent hip escapes.
2) Roy Harris purple belt test. After about 5:30 Roy is using hip on hip/ribs in sparring. I read a comment on a forum somewhere that the way he holds side control now is different to how he has done it in the past, maybe this means hip on hip is his preferred method.
3) Some discussion of it on a sherdog thread.
Henno I have just moved to Sydney and don't have a school yet, but I will probably train at Gracie Barra in Parramatta.
Posted On:3/16/2011 4:12pm
Not sure what happened to my other post but here is some more stuff I found on this side control:
1. Xande instructional covering hip on hip.
2. Roy Harris using hip on hip in sparring past 5:30 on this clip.
3. Sherdog link discussing hip on hip.
Posted On:3/16/2011 4:15pm
I've just moved to Sydney and am waiting out a knee injury, but I will likely train at Gracie Barra in Parramatta.
1% Shark is better than you.
Posted On:3/20/2011 7:55pm
IMO the last thing JnP posted is by far the most important. Get really good and heavy in modified scarf hold before you go after this position. The switched legs is the key to understanding how to transition back and forth and it is MUCH easier to learn from Kesa.
Posted On:3/21/2011 12:17am
Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing
This is a good position which I call a cross body and use a lot. I find people can't escape it too easy.
From his right side: you will be in angle with your head between his head and shoulder. Your right hip will be touching his with your legs spread out wide and you must be on the ball of your feet. Your hips will be low but the knees must stay off the ground. The key thing is the cross face which is done with the left arm and your shoulder in his chin which prevents him from turning into you. A lot of people fail to get chest on chest and don't bring their shoulder back which makes you heavy.
In my video you can see me in the cross body position (hip to Hip) around 1:11
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