Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
What that's not enough? Though I will say that the high guard ( refered to
in some very obscure circles as the Boxers Bridge) does have some limited
utility in certain situations , usually infighting , however you're still tucking
And I don't know if anyone else has noticed it but there are quite a few
similarities to some of the socalled "prison" systems.
Let me try to analyze and then I'll bring it up to coach:
This is merely a combination --not the goal. Smashing the opponents triceps, quads, stomach, and face are all distractions --good ones, for anyone who's ever experience a sharp elbow to one of those areas, but you don't get knocked out from the guard. But again, these are combinations that set you up to either escape, or secure a position to do more damage. And obviously there are ways to easily defend this if you know what you're doing: you can pull the person forward and secure them, sweep them, grab an arm and secure them, but the exercise here seems to be more about hurting the opponent --and KFM is about being able to hurt your opponent from any position. Yeah, this can be reversed, but technically anything can be reversed. But again what you see is one combination from one position of the many possibilities I imagine KFM offers.
That being said, I've yet to see any submissions from KFM. But KFM isn't GJJ. They're different principals sharing only the same goal: surviving an attack. Gracie Jiu Jitsu is the "Gentle Art" whereas KFM is meant to be brutal, fast, and efficient. And that's why everything we do is either a throw/push to get them away from you, a strike to make them regret engaging you, or a pull to bring them close only to throw them to the ground. Perhaps in the later grades they teach grappling (I've yet to see any even from the more experienced students in KFM), but if KFM is really designed to handle multiple opponents on the street then I don't see why they would implement grappling where you can hit them enough to make them let go, and then escape.
TL;DR: What you see is a combo, not meant to be the end-all. Yeah, you can think of ways to get out of it, that's why there's more combos. Not sure if this combo is in KFMMMA, but I'll ask my coach his thoughts on this combo later.
Yes. For a soldier that is expect to resolve a fight with firearms, time spent on H2H is money poorly spent. Pretty much the same as spending money on wingsuit jumping or parkour. H2H gets taught to instill aggression and confidence,; imparting some slightly improved likelihood of avoiding a case of the dead until a friendly face with a rifle shows up is a bonus, but largely unnecessary..
Originally Posted by Law Bob Loblaw
"Your body must be like a stone, your mind... like a meatloaf."
Originally Posted by strikistanian
Originally Posted by Devil
Duly noted, I apologise for the inaccuracy.
Originally Posted by Law Bob Loblaw
I also said it's nothing personal.
My point stands that a lot of people say they train the army. What I was saying is that a lot of people lie about it. Gezere's point that it doesn't mean much further underscores how it's kinda moot even if true.
Originally Posted by Judoka_UK
We have and its already proven itself in over 2000 close quarter engagements.
Originally Posted by Law Bob Loblaw
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
It's taken ages to get through this thread for some reason, must be the hangover. Having never tried it, it would be disrespectful to comment on its effectiveness, but a few comments were a bit weird. I am immediately sceptical when a system promotes multiple attacker scenarios and various weapon disarms. Having only seen videos of this on youtube it doesnt look like a great breakthrough to me.As for the people who have only ever been in fights 1 on 1 or witnessed the big crowd watching/restraining folk, theres an open invitation to come to Glasgow on a Saturday night at 3am and watch for yourself how often one lost soul gets jumped on by a bunch of unskilled bams.
I could be extremely wrong about the vids as I have never trained it for real so take my comment with a pinch of salt. Word of warning though to Loblaw, I understand why you mentioned it, and it is admirable that you are promoting your instructor so strongly, but as soon as anyone in the military reads anything about an instructor having taught SF/Infantry/LE/Paras/The Queen/James Bond, they go on bullshido autopilot. Many have made these claims in other well known systems and been outed as a Walt, even genuine SAS WO's have been fooled by such claims themselves. And as my American collegue pointed out, you see many people teaching on bases worlwide, invited or otherwise. Some are truly excellent and unexpected (I'm thinking of a MCMAP session in Camp Bastion which incidentally got me into starting out BJJ a few weeks ago finally at a Gracie Barra and it is already dominating my thinking 24/7, and a Scottish Arnis guy who is ex forces and is the only bloke who's knife defences I've seen would persuade me to take someone on with a chibb) and others are downright bizarre, but have nontheless taught all sorts of "elite" and "tier 1" people. Getting a visitors pass onto Bragg or Hereford doesn't mean you can fight, just like the plumber on Bragg may be sh*** at his job but he'll always brag(no pun intended) about it on his CV. I wish in the UK we had our own MCMAP/COMBATIVES system, although you are armed, situations do arise inside tight compounds, around mouseholes and on VCP's. A lot of incidents don't call for lethal force or justify even pointing a firearm at an individual, ie if a hysterical wife is coming at you with a rice cooker aloft!
I still worry with so much various weapon defences being taught by people who have never fired a weapon in their life or confronted a blade, especially when they present you with various options, and they aren't drilled consitently and under extreme supervision. It only takes someone to be half an inch out with their arm to suffer a catastrophic bleed. When do they ever teach you how to respond to such a life threatening injury if you do get it wrong? Whatever time you have spent in any system, if some bawbag is pointing something jaggy at you, or something which goes bang, you better well be commited to kill or be killed whatever tactic you employ to survive it. I already have that ethos deeply engrained within me by plenty of bruises, scars and death cheats, in a fight, the queue for the ATM and when I'm in my car if you give me the excuse to train live on you I'll destroy you or die trying. Hence the very rare venture into alcohol.
I probably read Bushido too often hence the unhealthy indifference to death. I don't need to pay for DVD's to be taught aggression thanks,or to be told to aim for the throat rather than the jaw, I'm happy with well tested and trusted techniques, if it works for thousands of others, I'll make it work for me. Plus it all comes down to what you train for, I'm not doing it to defy a murderous assault or sodomy attempt, I just want the lifestyle! But I wish anyone involved in KFM the best of luck, it seems to slowly be getting into the consciousness over here in the UK, particularly in MAI.....better than reading about that bloody Matt Fiddes gimp anyway. Good thread though guys....or at least it was until my pointless 2p worth haha.
Originally Posted by scottishsoldier
Very well written and reasonable response. I appreciate to taking the time to patiently reply.
I've been opened up to the fact that there are many instructors who claim "I've traned ALL the SEALS" and are in fact, lying. I do however, trust my instructor based on his demeanor, the fruit of his works, and the consistency of his teaching methods.
I did forget to show him the clip, and he's on seminar leave atm, so I'll do it another day. Maybe I can shoot a video of one of the training sessions so you guys can analyze it in action and let me know your thoughts from there.
No problem dude like I said, you have trained it and I haven't so I cannot comment on the technical aspects of it. Also, I am not by any means a martial arts expert, just when someone says to me, I'll show you how to disarm a knife/firearm, I tend to judge it on experience, which far outweighs any system known to man. I know of a bloke from South Africa who took down a Suicide bomber bare handed last year and he has never had any formal training, it was just experience and instinct. I would like to watch such a clip buddy just to get a feel for the training ethos etc.
Originally Posted by Law Bob Loblaw
I read that stress is simulated as much as possible, a bit like some of the better Krav places, that is a good thing wether you're learning level 5 ninja seal killing techniques or even down to.....Aikido. Most peoples idea of stress is different to true physical stress and you'd be surprised the number of "black belts" out there who fail to execute a Jab properly whilst bein shouted at! It is good to trust in your instructor, we can all learn from people regardless of their background and experience or lack of in some cases. I wish you good luck in your training mate, and I hope you never have to use it.
I just thought I would put in my tuppence worth here.
I used to train KFM (I trained on and off for more than 2 years) before leaving after getting a bit sick of various things; after Batman Begins there seemed to be more and more emphasis on “flashy” techniques and movie screenfighting, and Andy and Justo seemed to be more concerned with Hollywood and making money. A lot of instructors seemed to leave at about the same time (the UK headquarters in Hull shut down).
I can’t verify either Andy or Justo’s credentials, although I believe Andy does study/ studied Machado BJJ and they both seem to have a JKD background. We used to be told ever more outlandish tales of Justo’s early days battling hordes of Spanish gypsies in mines. I was once told that Justo had been to jail for scooping out a guy’s eye and taking a bite out of it.
BS aside the class I trained at did spar and do drills of varying intensity under pressure and in locations such as stairwells, in the bogs, with multiple attackers etc. the only gripe with this was that the sparring was done with minimal protective equipment (cup, gumshield, 4oz mma gloves).
Of the techniques taught I liked the basics- the pensador stance I like and have been taught an identical cover in SBG. The weapons stuff was very effective and much more realistic than what I had come across in Kali. The groundwork is very street based and rolling with someone who can grab your nuts/ fish-hook and poke you in the eye is an eye-opener if nothing else. The aggressiveness of the system also suited me.
What I didn’t like was all the BS marketing hype, the politics, and a lot of the pointless, flashy moves- a lot of which seemed to rely on unrealistic timing and a non-resisting opponent.
I would recommend going along to try out a KFM class to anyone- I got a lot out of it. I wouldn’t however recommend anyone do it as their ONLY art- if you do MMA or similar then you can go and try some Keysi, learn how to adapt your techniques to make them a bit more effective for the street (and even then I would probably recommend Krav Maga over KFM if there’s a decent class near you). If you only train KFM, especially if you start training as a beginner to martial arts then you could well end up with one hell of a set of blinkers on, mindlessly hanging off Andy and Justo’s every edict. The OP’s comments were just about the first sensible ones I have seen from a KFM instructor on a MA forum.
Andy used to do a lot of stuff with Marc McFann - in fact I attended a seminar in Hull with Marc before Andy went with Justo.
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