Shou Shu; any redeeming factors?

Beginners Mind · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:05am

This is a compliant video. Those guys are attacking full speed, possibly full strength, but they are limiting the attacks to what will work for the defender.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...AMxgdZ74sSq.99

This is in no way a valid example of a successful multiples vs 1 defense. All of Mr. Shioda's uke are compliant. None of them are fully resisting. At 1:09 his uke flips around him after Mr. Shioda barely touches him.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...AMxgdZ74sSq.99

You do not understand the body dynamics that are at play in Aikido, you are taking advantage of certain inherent weaknesses in human anatomy. The other person has no choice but to go along with what you are doing, either because you have taken their center of gravity and are manipulating that, or you have executed a joint lock of some type.

Are you saying that it is impractical to try to develop any method what-so-ever for facing multiple opponents simultaneously and that training methods for facing multiple opponents do not exist? Those fella's attacking him are blackbelt's, not schmoes off the street. Even if their objective was to grab him and detain him, rather than to cause serious bodily injury, can you honestly say that what he did was not an incredible expression of martial skill?

They can't pin him down, they can't grab him, and they keep getting put in positions (intentionally by Shioda) where they are stumbling over each other. He positions himself so he can face them one or two at a time. That is astonishing!

Beginners Mind · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:07am

3 hands of China? The kempo technique?
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...AMxgdZ74sSq.99

Because Al Moore Sr. studied Kenpo first, he borrowed some of the names of the techniques for his own system, but the techniques themselves and the body dynamics at play are not the same.

Beginners Mind · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:11am

Woah, somehow this got posted twice.

It is okay under the law to physically defend yourself if other individuals are verbally threatening you and you feel they are capable of following through on those threats. Look up "Assault" in a law dictionary.

If someone is standing in front of you cursing and shouting, say, "I'm gonna effing kill you." You have a right to defend yourself.

Beginners Mind · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:12am

:Milk:

1. Run away, don't walk away.

2. This is a different situation than what was initially described.

1. What if you can't run away? For instance, on the ancient battlefields of India, China, and Japan. Or, at the back of a bar or club with only one entrance. Or, in a bathroom. Or, with your back against a wall where two, three, or four people are blocking your path? This kind of training is necessary and practical.

2. Which situation? We are discussing the practicality of attacking multiple people at once.

**ashkelon** · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:20am

here's what's going to happen:
either you'll ragequit because you'll be unable to cope with the sheer idiocy of your presence here.
OR
little by little you'll start to realize all this is bullshit. it's pretty cruel really, all the things you imagined yourself doing one day. gone, like your belief in santa, unicorns. sniff.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:25am

Originally Posted by Beginners Mind

You do not understand the body dynamics that are at play in Aikido, you are taking advantage of certain inherent weaknesses in human anatomy. The other person has no choice but to go along with what you are doing, either because you have taken their center of gravity and are manipulating that, or you have executed a joint lock of some type.

Are you saying that it is impractical to try to develop any method what-so-ever for facing multiple opponents simultaneously and that training methods for facing multiple opponents do not exist? Those fella's attacking him are blackbelt's, not schmoes off the street. Even if their objective was to grab him and detain him, rather than to cause serious bodily injury, can you honestly say that what he did was not an incredible expression of martial skill?

They can't pin him down, they can't grab him, and they keep getting put in positions (intentionally by Shioda) where they are stumbling over each other. He positions himself so he can face them one or two at a time. That is astonishing!

This is complete and utter BULLSHIT!
First off its a compliant demo in Aikido the uke will ALWAYS do what the tori is directing them to do. I, and many many, others have done Aikido long enough to know that. Trying to say otherwise shows a huge lack of understanding the Aikido culture, especially in a demo. When Aikido meets resistance it looks nothing like a demo, EVER!
Matter anytime I've seen Aikido meet resistance it looks more like this:

I always have to ask about guys who think their art helps them with multiples, If you can't beat one guy in single combat what makes you think you can be many. If I beat you one on one what makes you think you will do any better when I have friends?

Beginners Mind · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:26am

(chuckles)

All you can do is prepare for the possible contingencies ahead of time and then remain focused on what is happening during a confrontation. It comes down to a combination of skill and luck whether or not you win any fight - of any kind - on a given day.

Personally, I have no aspiration to beat up anyone, much less a group of people. None-the-less, I will prepare for that contingency according to the tradition of my school.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:34am

Originally Posted by Beginners Mind

(chuckles)

All you can do is prepare for the possible contingencies ahead of time and then remain focused on what is happening during a confrontation. It comes down to a combination of skill and luck whether or not you win any fight - of any kind - on a given day.

Personally, I have no aspiration to beat up anyone, much less a group of people. None-the-less, I will prepare for that contingency according to the tradition of my school.

*snicker*
Good luck with that. Good way to keep that delusion it to stay away from real training.

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:34am

Originally Posted by Beginners Mind

You do not understand the body dynamics that are at play in Aikido, you are taking advantage of certain inherent weaknesses in human anatomy. The other person has no choice but to go along with what you are doing, either because you have taken their center of gravity and are manipulating that, or you have executed a joint lock of some type.

As a former practitioner of aikido, I can tell you this is total bullshit. The only way this kind of stuff works is if your opponent is letting it, or in the unlikely scenario you have a significant grappling advantage over them. Or if they are specifically trained to attack in such a way to make these openings available. I can guarantee a motivated attacker with some rudimentary fighting experience would tool up that guy if he had some buddies with him.

Are you saying that it is impractical to try to develop any method what-so-ever for facing multiple opponents simultaneously and that training methods for facing multiple opponents do not exist? Those fella's attacking him are blackbelt's, not schmoes off the street. Even if their objective was to grab him and detain him, rather than to cause serious bodily injury, can you honestly say that what he did was not an incredible expression of martial skill?

I've done these multiple attacker randoris in Aikido. Albeit with 3 attackers, not 5 or 7 or whatever, but I've also seen 5 attackers. They always take it easy in comparison to 3 on 1 and 4 on 1 fights I've seen at parties. IMHO there is no defense against multiple attackers. Not realistically. Especially when I've seen guys pass that test, and get tooled by one guy who knew how to box.

They can't pin him down, they can't grab him, and they keep getting put in positions (intentionally by Shioda) where they are stumbling over each other. He positions himself so he can face them one or two at a time. That is astonishing!

They can do all of those things. They are being bumbling idiots as an act, and you are the fool who fell for it. I was an uchi deshi in my dojo. I did the same thing. Demonstration after demonstration. I even remember my Sensei taught us how to attack in such a way that it would make throwing easier (i.e. Overextending, attacking off balance, "taking your own fall").

Beginners Mind · Posted On: 7/23/2012 11:43am

Originally Posted by Gezere

This is complete and utter BULLSHIT!
First off its a compliant demo in Aikido the uke will ALWAYS do what the tori is directing them to do. I, and many many, others have done Aikido long enough to know that. Trying to say otherwise shows a huge lack of understanding the Aikido culture, especially in a demo. When Aikido meets resistance it looks nothing like a demo, EVER!

You don't have a choice but to do what they force you to do. Once they take your center of gravity or get a joint lock, its over.