Thread: Shou Shu; any redeeming factors?
3/07/2011 6:59pm, #21
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
gotcha; thanks a bunch, =D
7/22/2012 8:45am, #22Beginners MindGuest
Why not go back to your school and challenge one of the middle ranks? Perhaps a blue belt or a green belt... If it's just a bunch of bullshido you should have no problem taking them down.
7/22/2012 9:50am, #23Beginners MindGuest
I would recommend it highly!
7/22/2012 9:51am, #24Beginners MindGuest
Lol, what is this?
7/22/2012 9:51am, #25Beginners MindGuest
Are there any traditional martial arts from the Americas?
7/22/2012 9:52am, #26Beginners MindGuest
Because you train to be fast, strong, and to avoid incoming attacks.
7/22/2012 9:53am, #27Beginners MindGuest
Whats wrong with a little recreational violence? The Greeks and Romans did it...
7/22/2012 9:54am, #28Beginners MindGuest
I'm new to the forum, and wanted to give my two cents.
With regards to cross training to get experience fighting opponents on the ground, BBJ or Judo would be excellent choices. If you end up on the ground against an experienced ground fighter and you only have experience with standing techniques, you are in big trouble. This is something which has been proven time and time again via. the famous Gracie Challenge. However, standing martial arts systems have an excellent point: "You cannot fight more than one person on the ground. Therefore, it is not effective against multiple individuals."
Whereas I do not accept the brazen claim that all Shou Shu practicioners of a certain level can defend themselves against multiple opponents, there is an extraordinary amount of time spend on training drills, techniques, and tactics for dealing with more than one opponent at a time. For anyone who thinks it is impossible to defend against multiple attackers and come out on top, check out some videos of street fights with on youtube. I have seen many, many cases of one verses many where the trained fighter handles four or five untrained (or possibly trained) opponents. Here are some examples:
1. 4 v 1 street
2. 6 v 1 street
3. 7 v 1 alleyway
4. 2 v 1 bar
5. 3 v 1 park
5. Randori Aikido (training)
6. Shou shu (demos)
7. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150464833907557 Shou shu (2 v 1 tactics)
A martial art's effectiveness, generally speaking, is not determined by the art itself, but by the martial artist who's exercising the art. There is no such thing as a "most deadly, most effective, most amazing martial art." There are only effective and astonishing individuals. Some individuals are capable - regardless of style - of handling multiple attackers in a given situation.
Shou Shu is based upon both Chinese Kung Fu of some type (we aren't sure which type) and Japanese martial arts (mainly Kenpo). Regardless of its beginnings, the principals of Shou Shu are sound and useful: In terms of body dynamics, we train smooth transition between stances, bone alignment, turning the hips, rooting our weight, shifting body weight, and so on. In terms of weapons, we train in striking with a variety of body parts (foot, knee, hips, elbows, shoulders, wrists, hand, etc), and landing strikes on vital points on the body to damage nerves, veins, glands, critical bony areas (collar bones, larynx, middle of the spine, neck bones), or critical organs, locks on the wrist, elbow, shoulder, neck, spine, hip, knee, and ankle, etc. We also have a large variety of throwing techniques.
Here is one of the masters of our style demonstrating some techniques and tactics associated with the animals of Shou Shu:
In terms of martial richness, the material is there for a driven, sincere individual to make tremendous progress. Whether or not this art will become practical and useful is entirely up to the individual. When it comes down to it, there is no art or system on the planet that can turn you into an effective martial artist or a warm-hearted and sincere human being. It comes down to your own "kung fu," your own hard work.
Last edited by Beginners Mind; 7/22/2012 10:14am at . Reason: errors in the text
7/22/2012 11:09am, #29Beginners MindGuestWhat is the foundation of this art? I went to one of the studios in Stockton, Ca. They look legit in application... but something about their hsitory doesn't smell right.
anyone have thoughts on this? More importantly is their a Kung Fu association that can look into them and if they are a fraud, then they need to be exposed.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...25X5lZCwW9D.99
Based upon my own experience with the art and other martial arts, it appears to have elements of various internal and external Chinese martial arts, as well as elements of Japanese martial arts. Unfortunately, Albert Moore (for lack of a better term, the founder of this art) was not more forthcoming with information about the origins of what he was teaching, however based upon the attack strategy and weapons employed in Shou Shu, it could contain chunks of these arts:
Shaolin Kung Fu
Northern Praying Mantis
White Crane Kung Fu
Having had previous experience with Chinese and Japanese internal marital arts, I can say that Shou Shu - while appearing more aggressive - is probably based upon Chinese internal martial arts. Huge amounts of power are generated by rooting and then shifting your weight through the opponent without necessarily including hip motion, a very typical Chinese internal martial arts strategy. Also, the use of smooth and flowing motion, evasion, misdirection, rooting, shifting, and striking vital points is very typical of Chinese internal martial arts:
Brown belt cobra form
Baguaquan fighting applications
Shou shu fighting applications
Shou Shu Mass Attack
There are similarities between Shou Shu and Chinese internal and external martial arts, which indicates to me that Shou Shu probably does have a history that stretches back to China. However, the extent and detail of that relationship and history is unknown. Is that a serious problem? Is it a serious problem that Shou Shu's history is unknown before it's introduction by Albert Moore? Not in my opinion. The art is quite rich and functional regardless of its history.
In terms of training methods, Al Moore adopted aspects of the pedagogy of Kenpo in order to make it easier to learn. Generally speaking, Chinese martial arts are taught as a series of forms which are later filled in by using reaction drills, sensitivity exercises, hands-on application training, etc. Al Moore thought that teaching martial arts as a series of hands-on applications which then demonstrate the purpose of the form was a much more effective method. This is a method which was borrowed from his training in Kenpo Karate.
He also taught exercises which are typically taught in Chinese martial arts, like Tui Shou or "Sticky Hands" for developing greater ability to read and react to the opponent once you have made physical contact. I have also heard that part of the blackbelt training involves two-person fighting forms, which is typical of Shoalin-based martial arts. Expressly not included in the training are ground-fighting techniques. In my opinion, this does make the Shou Shuist vulnerable to certain types of attack, but that can be fixed by cross training in BJJ, Judo, Sando, Greko-roman wrestling, etc.
There are hundreds of styles out there, none of which are effective by themselves. Only individual human beings who have put in the time, effort, sweat, blood, and tears required become effective, regardless of style. The study of Shou Shu is no different than any other art, in that respect.
For my opinion regarding the "multiple opponents claims" in Shou Shu, please see: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=104701&page=3
Last edited by Beginners Mind; 7/22/2012 11:46am at .
7/22/2012 3:59pm, #30
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- Sep 2011