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  1. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:26pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Most of the training in Shou Shu is one-on-one. As I stated before, probably only 2%-5% of our material is meant for defending against multiple attackers. The rest of our material is intended for attacking and defending one-on-one. There are also movement sequences (like Mass Attack, Cobra Form, etc) which combine one-on-one attacks and multiple person attacks in a sequence. Thereby, you train to handle whatever appears in front of, next to, or behind you smoothly, regardless of what it is.
    Yet you have yet to provide evidence of it's effectiveness in 1-on-1 sparring...

    I feel I should mention again at this point, this is a training tool. I don't accept that claim that any given blackbelt of our system can take down multiple blackbelts of other styles simultaneously. That's nonsense.
    That is nonsense, and it's a strawman. Nobody suggested that. What isn't nonsense is us asking if they could please provide video footage (or any evidence for that matter) of them using these against any single trained alive attacker coming from a discipline that has been proven to be effective.

    In order to make a case that the techniques are effective against multiple attackers, first show us evidence of them being effective against a single, competent attacker. Like someone with a few years of wrestling in high school, or perhaps some boxing competition experience?
  2. Beginners Mind

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:26pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    Are you saying it is ok to train for the lowest level? That is like saying my car is fast compared to a tricycle but when matched up with other cars it gets blown away its not really doing you much good.
    No, it is not okay to train for only defending against untrained or lower skill opponents, that is ridiculous. It isn't ridiculous, however, to train yourself to be able to react smoothly to attacks coming from multiple angles simultaneously.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:27pm

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     Style: xingyi

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Most of the training in Shou Shu is one-on-one. As I stated before, probably only 2%-5% of our material is meant for defending against multiple attackers.
    Stop. You are on the wrong website. These logical fallacies may work somewhere else, but not on Bullshido.

    What you keep doing is tailoring your argument to fit your needs. You talk in generalities then, when pressed and wrong, you switch to the narrowest possibility where you can be correct.

    No, you aren't just talking abou Shou Shu's 5%. I am addressing your attempt to codify all multiple opponent scenarios, in multiple arts, as a way of training that is allegedly encompassed in Shou Shu.

    No, these military battles all occurred after these people were trained how to take out one person. Now, were techniques added to fight multiples? Sure. Still, as with all MA training, if you can't beat one you can't beat multiples. So, as the military people like Gezere will tell you, they all train one on one for effectiveness.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:28pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Don't really want to debate about Xingyi, but it was founded by a Chinese general who regularly used in actual combat against multiple opponents bearing swords and spears.
    You're confusing legend with fact.
  5. Beginners Mind

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:30pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Um, we are discussing one vs. many in an unarmed confrontation in this thread. A battlefield confrontation is many vs. many, everyone has weapons.

    Do you understand how these two things are different?
    It is valid to say that on the battlefield - from any one person's perspective - that the action is always one verses many. If you get your head chopped off by the person standing behind you while you're attacking the person in front of you, your whole army does not feel the effect of the blow. In that circumstance, you are facing an enemy from the front and an enemy from behind simultaneously, and the rest of your comrades effectively having nothing to do with it.
  6. Beginners Mind

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:32pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    Why its unfathomable is because it is a very romanticized view of warfare. Being that close in combat it is extremely rare to come out unscathed, extremely. Even if you survive you are bound to take some damage. You're idea stems more from movies and tales of combat and not reality. Even on the modern battlefield, which I have been on, being that close to an enemy greatly increases your risk of being injured.
    I have isolated one aspect of what is happening for the sake of discussion. I'm not saying that in real battle the most skilled person just Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon's everyone. That is ridiculous.
  7. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:33pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    It isn't ridiculous, however, to train yourself to be able to react smoothly to attacks coming from multiple angles simultaneously.
    right, would also like to see evidence of this in an alive scenario. No evidence? Than this claim is as ridiculous as the strawman arguments you've been building.
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:33pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    It is valid to say that on the battlefield -
    .....
    If you get your head chopped off by the person standing behind you while you're attacking the person in front of you..
    What is your exact experience on the battlefield, again?

    Lol@ the progression from "is shou shu effective" to heads getting chopped off by bladed weapons.
  9. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:35pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    No, it is not okay to train for only defending against untrained or lower skill opponents, that is ridiculous. It isn't ridiculous, however, to train yourself to be able to react smoothly to attacks coming from multiple angles simultaneously.
    Seriously man you back pedal quite a bit. So you are not training for the lowest skill level, that is a good thing because if you were I would further question your reasoning skills.
    As for reacting to attacks form multiple angle simultaneously, did you really think that through? If you are being attacked from multiple angles all at the same time you are not doing to deal with that smoothly. How do you train this? If three guys rush you at the same time what is your course of action to smoothly deal with this?
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  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:36pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    What is your exact experience on the battlefield, again?

    Lol@ the progression from "is shou shu effective" to heads getting chopped off by bladed weapons.
    No, no no it is all the same, except when it isn't.

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