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  1. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    :Thoughtful:

    Just again thinking back to the battlefields of India, China, and Japan... Out there, you were not engaged in one-on-one fights with opponents who gave into your movements. You had your weapon, sure, but so did the guys you were facing. Why is it impossible to fathom that one person could have faced many and come out unharmed or without life-threatening injury? Why is it impossible to fathom that skills such as those still exist and can be trained in?

    To me, it's not unfathomable. It seems like common-sense.
    Why its unfathomable is because it is a very romanticized view of warfare. Being that close in combat it is extremely rare to come out unscathed, extremely. Even if you survive you are bound to take some damage. You're idea stems more from movies and tales of combat and not reality. Even on the modern battlefield, which I have been on, being that close to an enemy greatly increases your risk of being injured.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. Beginners Mind

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:10pm


     

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Hahahahaha we have a myth scholar on our hands. You might want to do some ACTUAL research, based on scholarly articles, not post "facts" handed dow from "my master's master's master told me" BS.
    Not my master's master's master.. I hesitate to tell any stories because the automatic response is, "Well, you weren't there!" Or, "Well, you were there, but I wasn't there! I'll believe it when I see it!"

    I was not there for this event, but I know people who were there and saw it happen. My old studio was located in a really bad neighborhood in Sacramento, CA. During a group class, seven african-american men came to the door and started challenging the head instructor. They said, "We don't need your karate, we've got these muscles!" He laid them all out on the street in front of the studio without himself being injured, then came back inside and called the cops.

    There are a ton of stories like this within our system, that are not coming from 100 years ago. I know people who have witnessed blackbelts in my system pick fights or be challenged by multiple people and win.
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most appropriate screen name ever!
  4. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:13pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Just again thinking back to the battlefields of India, China, and Japan... Out there, you were not engaged in one-on-one fights with opponents who gave into your movements. You had your weapon, sure, but so did the guys you were facing.
    Oh, are you thinking back to these battlefields that your were totally at? GROW UP. Warfare isn't like that anymore. It never will be again. And your whole point is flawed in that nobody ever fought an army by themselves and won, let alone unscathed. They had friends, it was a battle between two armies. And from what my friends who have been in combat overseas tell me, luck has a whole fuckton of a lot to do with surviving any kind of battle where the odds aren't stacked majorly in your favor.

    Why is it impossible to fathom that one person could have faced many and come out unharmed or without life-threatening injury? Why is it impossible to fathom that skills such as those still exist and can be trained in?

    To me, it's not unfathomable. It seems like common-sense.
    It's not unfathomable, it's just highly unlikely you get anything resembling those skills without immersing yourself in actual combat, or as close to it as possible (google: Aliveness). It's even more unlikely that you'll do that, and not have some goddamn video proof of it in this day and age. Even if you DID do that, it's still highly unlikely.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:13pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Not my master's master's master.. I hesitate to tell any stories because the automatic response is, "Well, you weren't there!" Or, "Well, you were there, but I wasn't there! I'll believe it when I see it!"

    I was not there for this event, but I know people who were there and saw it happen. My old studio was located in a really bad neighborhood in Sacramento, CA. During a group class, seven african-american men came to the door and started challenging the head instructor. They said, "We don't need your karate, we've got these muscles!" He laid them all out on the street in front of the studio without himself being injured, then came back inside and called the cops.

    There are a ton of stories like this within our system, that are not coming from 100 years ago. I know people who have witnessed blackbelts in my system pick fights or be challenged by multiple people and win.
    Gezere and I have duly noted the reference in your post. Personally, you went from a "beginner" to an asshole.

    Thanks for reinforcing my point, while trying to run away from it.
  6. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:14pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Not my master's master's master.. I hesitate to tell any stories because the automatic response is, "Well, you weren't there!" Or, "Well, you were there, but I wasn't there! I'll believe it when I see it!"

    I was not there for this event, but I know people who were there and saw it happen. My old studio was located in a really bad neighborhood in Sacramento, CA. During a group class, seven african-american men came to the door and started challenging the head instructor. They said, "We don't need your karate, we've got these muscles!" He laid them all out on the street in front of the studio without himself being injured, then came back inside and called the cops.

    There are a ton of stories like this within our system, that are not coming from 100 years ago. I know people who have witnessed blackbelts in my system pick fights or be challenged by multiple people and win.
    Oh, well since you put it that way.....

    *cough* bullshit *cough*
    Last edited by Zerstörer90; 7/23/2012 1:18pm at .
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Not my master's master's master.. I hesitate to tell any stories because the automatic response is, "Well, you weren't there!" Or, "Well, you were there, but I wasn't there! I'll believe it when I see it!"

    I was not there for this event, but I know people who were there and saw it happen. My old studio was located in a really bad neighborhood in Sacramento, CA. During a group class, seven african-american men came to the door and started challenging the head instructor. They said, "We don't need your karate, we've got these muscles!" He laid them all out on the street in front of the studio without himself being injured, then came back inside and called the cops.

    There are a ton of stories like this within our system, that are not coming from 100 years ago. I know people who have witnessed blackbelts in my system pick fights or be challenged by multiple people and win.
    And I would call BS on all of them. Stories don't have to be old to be BS. Yes I heard many of the same ones. Different place but they all pitted the master against great odds and laying the thugs out unscathed. You can probably guess my disappointment when someone not fitting the physical figures of the mythic thugs dominates them in a simple sparring match.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. Beginners Mind

    Guest

    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:21pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, common sense dictates they learned ONE on ONE like all of the murals, paintings, statues, scholarly articles and training we see to this day. Then you may be put in a situation that may cause you to apply your SINGLE ATTACKER BASED SCENARIO to use in a multiple attack situation. Applying something in WAR is not training, that's where your logic fails.
    Most of the training in Shou Shu is one-on-one. As I stated before, probably only 2%-5% of our material is meant for defending against multiple attackers. The rest of our material is intended for attacking and defending one-on-one. There are also movement sequences (like Mass Attack, Cobra Form, etc) which combine one-on-one attacks and multiple person attacks in a sequence. Thereby, you train to handle whatever appears in front of, next to, or behind you smoothly, regardless of what it is.

    I feel I should mention again at this point, this is a training tool. I don't accept that claim that any given blackbelt of our system can take down multiple blackbelts of other styles simultaneously. That's nonsense.
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:25pm

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     Style: 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginners Mind View Post
    Why would people thumbs down my post without leaving a meaningful response to what I said? Tsk tsk.
    A thumbs down is about as clear and concise as a response gets, and the effect is cumulative.
  10. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2012 1:26pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One place I trained at briefly Had an instructor who laid out five guys blocking him from his McDojo financed Mercedes. So I totally know where he is coming from.


    If course I did not actually see this....

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