Tai Otoshi Question

[judoka_uk]

Question regarding tai otoshi weight balancing;

Would adopted the Adams 50/50 style make you less susceptible to a ko soto gari counter if uke is able to step over the straight leg?

Well it depends on the skill level of both people, how the tori reacts to the step over, what position uke is in etc...

In theory though Ko soto gari as a counter to Tai otoshi is based on the principle of toi having the majority of his weight on the outstretched leg. However, as most people teach Tai otoshi poorly and most beginners do it incorrectly, when it comes time to actually do this in randori. People often find that trying to counter Tai otoshi with Ko soto gari is an utter failure because most of tori's weight is on the other leg and all you do is slightly lift their leg if anything.

You have as much chance of being countered with Ko soto gari in both versions.

[Res Judicata]

For what it's worth, I was taught to do Tai Otoshi almost exactly like this:


Note the explicit use of the triangle concept.

There's a famous picture of Adams' tai otoshi being countered by Ramon Pink. It shows up in the Masterclass books a few times.

[Coach Josh]

I subscribe to the Adams way.

[dustymars]

Mas,

Wow, that's more like hoaky goshi. Hane goshi is a difficult technique to learn for beginners, but watching this guy I see why! I like this guy's way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAdRr1gsu0w

Back in 1961 at an Air Force shiai I fought Tosh Seino, who perfected hane goshi and uchimata to an art, hit me with his great hane goshi and I almost soured in the clouds! He e-maiied me recently that he was sorry and hoped he had not hurt me! "Not even my ego was hurt," I repled. Not many can do that throw corectly.

[judoka_uk]

I subscribe to the Adams way.

I find teaching people to over emphasise the weight on the outstretched leg actually helps them get the Adams version more easily. As I find people have a natural tendency to overweight the wrong long as a consequence of their entry.

I tell them 'Aim for 70-30 and under stress of randori and competition you'll get 50-50'

[Coach Josh]

I find teaching people to over emphasise the weight on the outstretched leg actually helps them get the Adams version more easily. As I find people have a natural tendency to overweight the wrong long as a consequence of their entry.

I tell them 'Aim for 70-30 and under stress of randori and competition you'll get 50-50'

I do the same

[Outis]

Thanks for all the responses. By "not planting the right foot" I meant not putting the substantial majority of one's bodyweight on the right foot, so my question is one of bodyweight distribution.

IIRC, the sensei who advocated not putting the majority of weight on the right foot rationalized it as a safety concern--uke falling on a bent right leg bearing little weight on the ball of the foot would be safer than uke falling on a straightened, thrusting right leg bearing the majority of weight.

[Mas]

Thanks for all the responses. By "not planting the right foot" I meant not putting the substantial majority of one's bodyweight on the right foot, so my question is one of bodyweight distribution.

IIRC, the sensei who advocated not putting the majority of weight on the right foot rationalized it as a safety concern--uke falling on a bent right leg bearing little weight on the ball of the foot would be safer than uke falling on a straightened, thrusting right leg bearing the majority of weight.

A bent leg can still bear the majority of the weight, I tend to advocate an outstretched bent-leg with the majority of the weight on it, which maximizes the efficiency of the throw while maintaining safety standards.

To the ko-soto-gari counter question I find that with a 70-30 style uke cannot jump over tori's outstretched leg as easily, and therefore is less susceptible to ko-soto-gari, generally speaking. Proper hand placement and kuzushi obviously play a role in this as well.

That being said, in shiai the few times I've scored with tai-otoshi ended up being more 50-50.

[Coach Josh]

This is the case with most instructors. Mine taught us the same thing. When I went to a clinic with Mr Adams he asked me why I did taio like a girl. I responded because my coach is a woman.

Let it be know that it really isn't as important how you do your feet but how you do your hands.

[BKR]

Well it depends on the skill level of both people, how the tori reacts to the step over, what position uke is in etc...

In theory though Ko soto gari as a counter to Tai otoshi is based on the principle of toi having the majority of his weight on the outstretched leg. However, as most people teach Tai otoshi poorly and most beginners do it incorrectly, when it comes time to actually do this in randori. People often find that trying to counter Tai otoshi with Ko soto gari is an utter failure because most of tori's weight is on the other leg and all you do is slightly lift their leg if anything.

You have as much chance of being countered with Ko soto gari in both versions.

If most of the weight is on the back leg, then it is not really necessary to step over, you can just hip check and pull the guy backwards onto his back or do a rear counter throw. One of my students was fighting a guy in Vancouver 3 weeks ago who was a leftie, the guy kept doing a crappy Tai Otoshi, as is typical of that situation, and got a massive Ura Nage for his trouble.

Ben