Martial Arts Axis & Fang Shen Do-Kingston.. One & The Same?
I came across a post placed by new member 'sciencerules' on February 26. It's in a fairly old thread - Dungeon MMA in Kingston, ON , a thread started back in 11/14/2007.
The particular post ( http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62592 ) is in response, albeit somewhat late, to another fellows suspicions about the qualifications of instructors of the now defunct Dungeon school in Kingston
Why this post by sciencerules may be worthwhile pursuing:
- He lists three schools and gives his personal take on each.
- sciencerules states that he has heard Martial Arts Axis is 'the go-to Brazilian jujitsu school' in Kingston. Without mentioning the instructor by name, he says that the instructor trained for a number of years with the Gracie's.
- Martial Arts Axis' website plays a welcoming video chock full of testimonials by students. As you watch you come across images of Fang Shen Do uniformed folks- many times throughout the video. As you explore the Martial Arts Axis website you are bombarded by all kinds of 'feel good' stuff and unimportant fluff. There is an offer of a “FREE 30 Day Trial” but it has to be 'Explained'. Explained, because they will show you ‘Invisible Jiu Jitsu’ during that trial period, allegedly based on a series of seminars by Rickson Gracie. I know nothing about this 'Invisible Jiu Jitsu' so I will not comment on it further.
- Martial Arts Axis lists only one instructor for the club, Daryl Urbanski. I have found limited information on him. I cannot confirm or deny his blue belt BJJ ranking. I surmised Daryl Urbanski is very much into popular “success” and “motivational” movements, based on postings on his blogs.
- sciencerules gives a thumbs up review of 'Fang Shen Do – Kingston', which seems a little odd to me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, uniformed or not. He also makes mention of “'Bones' Jones”, but I fail to see any actual connection here.
- sciencerules gives a luke warm review/warning about http://www.martialartsplanet.ca/ mentioning “Just too much sketchy stuff “ about this school. I haven't had an in-depth look Martial Arts Planet. Martial Arts Planet does list a roster of instructors and their backgrounds. They also list their associations. From what I see, Martial Arts Plant's website is complete, coherent, and fairly concise and to the point.
- The physical address of Martial Arts Axis is:
629 Division Street
Lower Floor Studio
- The physical address of Fang Shen Do – Kingston is:
Other notes, links:
629 Division Street
Lower Floor Studio
- Sherdog and UFC have no listing for Daryl Urbanski
On Saturday, August 28th, Former UFC Middle Weight Champion Carlos Newton came to Kingston for a sold out seminar at Martial Arts aXis/Patenaude Kung Fu Studio. Carlos has been winning and competing in Mixed Martial Arts (MMA), Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ) and Submission Wrestling for over 10 years. The event was sponsored by the Kingston MMA Store, Patenaude's Kung Fu & Martial Arts aXis
Is there a business connection between Martial Arts Axis and Fang Shen Do?
If there is a connection, are they up to the same type of shenanigans: no documentation of qualifications, make-believe qualifications for other disciplines, up-selling new students to BBC or special instruction.
The lack of palatable information of what exactly who Martial Arts Axis is, and what exactly are they offering is troubling.
Is this a model that FSD is retreating to?
I leave it to the experience of the veterans of Bullshido as to whether this is worth pursuing.
Good find Old1o1. This could be a cost-sharing arrangement between the two organizations where they agree to share the rent and other overhead for the same floor space. However, the information I'm seeing from your links shows at the very least a partnership of some sort between the two. It would be interesting to hear from any current students as to who they pay their membership to.
One thing I do question is comments like this on their site. I see little value in this sort of advertising and I really question the character of anyone who would use it to promote their club. http://www.martialartsaxis.com/pain-in-my/
"At Martial Arts aXis, we are Mixed Martial Arts MAD SCIENTISTS! Ha ha ha.
Mixed Martial Arts Instructors in KINGSTON ONTARIO ARE FAILURES!
I said it. Go ahead, tell me different. Wait, wait.. Ok, let me clarify. MOST instructors of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Kingston Ontario are failures. Not to say they don’t mean well or have the best intentions.
It’s just a straight up fact.
Mixed Martial Arts & Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Instructors In Kingston Ontario Are Failures!"
Martial arts planet is a Straight Blast Gym. I know that Mike Sweeney and his wife are no longer involved, but he was(is?) the regional director for Canada for Straight Blast Gyms.
Notice the dragon logo for martialarts axis?
Hey there! ha ha ha.. This is kinda cool. You guys sure keep things on the up and up. I like that, actually thats part of why I made the post.
I can tell you what I know and hopefully it helps. When I was there I didn't see the Patenaude guys at all. Everyone's gi's had Martial Arts Axis logos and they guys there told me we were just sharing space and facilities.
Martial Arts Planet is actually the first place I went. I was pretty impressed with their website and they seemed the most professional. I enjoyed the trial class and at first it all seemed ok, but then when I spoke to one of the staff there afterwards, he actually got mad at me for a question I asked. We're not supposed to bow anywhere outside of my religious practices so I didn't want to bow to enter the gym. He made a big deal of it and was very condescending towards my culture. I felt it was a simple compromise and if I hadn't of asked, maybe I could have just not bowed and it would have never been an issue.
Anyways, I talked to a couple of people hanging out in the lobby. They all seemed nice. A few days later I into two of them in the Cat mall. I stopped to say hi, we chatted for a bit. One of them asked what I thought of the school. I told him just what I wrote here.. The class seemed ok, but my experience with the staff could have been better. The one guy then jumped into a rant on something about the club he was obviously upset about. Maybe I attracted it with my previous comment, but it changed my mind about giving the club a second chance.
At the time I was doing the free trial at martial arts axis, just trying to decided what I wanted. One day on the bus ride home I was chatting with one of the other students and he told me the new owners at martial arts planet and Daryl used to be best friends. Apparently Daryl had a deal to take over martial arts planet and it was his friend who set it up between them. I don't know all the details but I was told Daryl's loan with the bank was approved and when he went to talk with Mike the previous owner, someone had come in with a new offer and beat Daryls.. This turned out to be his best friend who even had written Daryl a letter to help with the loan.
It all just seemed really shady to me, plus my experience and what they one guy said at the mall.
Then like a week later my friend who was training there was really badly injured when the head instructor at martial arts planet threw him and dislocated his shoulder. He was doing a movie for school there too and at one time had their permission to film but then just before he finished it, they sent him threatening emails and threatened him with legal action if he used the footage... for his school project.. Wtf?
I didn't want to go into such detail in my original post, but you asked and digged so here it is. It was just waaay too much drama and shadyness. I was happy with martial arts axis. It was a really good school.
I know Daryl trained at Rickson Gracies school in Tokyo. And the logo matches his tattoo, but that's about all I know. Classes were well structured and professionally run. I felt well taken care of and as I said, consider it better than where I train now (which I still think is a good school).
I don't know about the patenaude guys or their qualifications. You seem to say their not a good club. I just know they seemed nice but I didn't really see them much. In my 5 months I never talked with them, just saw them come in after I finished class Monday nights.. They were never there when I was aside from that.
I just know i really shopped around before I made my decision and found that old thread citing gladiator as the best place in town. Its closed so I thought I'd update for everyone and give them my personal opinion from having researched the Kingston the circuit. Was that wrong? I mean no disrespect to the community. Someone else warned me too on that thread about posting on an old topic.
I've actually been meaning to start a thread about Martial Arts Axis for quite a while, and looks like with the new website, I'm not the only one!
I first met Daryl at the very begining of his opening of Martial Arts Axis in Kingston at his first location on Wellington street. I was going to be in town for a few months only, and wanted somewhere to train while I was there. I had recently gotten my Blue belt under Curtis Brigham, so I was a little surprised that the head instructor was the same rank as me. Notwithstanding, I went in to meet Daryl and sit in and watch a class he was running that day. When I got there, the gym was empty, and there was no class running. I waited a few minutes, and Daryl came out of the back room where he had been talking business with a new client. In front of my eyes, he (IMO) smooth talked this newbie into paying him 6 months upfront to start training, explaining that the membership was transferable if he didnt like it, so it was totally okay. A 6 month membership was about $750 dollars. I was awe-struck, having just come from a gym out east where monthly dues for BJJ (5 times per week) and Muay Thai (3 times per week) were only 85 bucks a month combined, taught by a professional MMA fighter and BJJ purple belt. Daryl, a blue belt whose instructor is not even in this continent, wanted $125 bucks a month for only 3 weeknight classes every week. After a fairly short discussion, I got a bad gut feeling about Daryl, and felt like he was more salesman than susbtance, so I walked away. I did some quite googling later that night and found his previous real estate investment business pitch... which struck me as a pyramid scheme, and thus solidified my opinion about him. I asked around at the base gym where I ended up training for free while I was in Kingston, and lets just say the personal opinions about Daryl were 100% negative. To be fair, everyone I've talked to freely admits he is a talented BJJ practitioner, though I do question his telling everyone (including me) that hes "pratically a purple belt", when he's not winning competitions at the blue level.
Fast forward a year: I kept tabs on Daryl's website, watching it change over th months. At one point, and I'm not exagerating, he had posted up the pyramid payment scheme his gym offered. If you were willing to bring in 1, 2, or 3 new members a month, you had access to a different pay scale than if you brought in nobody. And, if you agreed to provide new meat, and weren't able to, you paid a penalty fee, that ended up costing you MORE than had you signed up for the original "no pryamid" monthly rate. On top of this, he also had a $25 missed class fee designed to "encourage" people to attend classes. This all struck me as very underhanded and shady business practice.
As to sciencerules comments about the purchase of Martial Arts Planet above: that may very well be the story that Daryl told you. I have never been a member at MAP, but I have attended a few seminars etc, and know the personalities involved. McSweeney was a very good business man, and the current instructor there was his head BJJ instructor before he sold his gym. It was always his intent to sell it to him, as with most instructors, he wanted to pass his gym on to a trusted instructor. I had heard through the grapevine that Daryl put in an offer to buy the cash cow that was MAP. To my knowledge, that was never a seriously considered offer, and the intent was always to sell to Chris. This is anecdotal evidence, but I think it at least ballances out the other side nicely. What gym DOESN'T have this kind of drama in its past?
Two side notes: 1. Having trained at MAP a couple times, and trained with their members outside of the club on other occasions, I have had nothing but good experiences with their members. If I had anything negative to say about MAP it would only be that in my opinion they promote their memebers too quickly, and are not competition focused enough... that said, thats just my style and view towards training.
2. "Master Daryl" (yeah, he really makes his guys call him that, watch the testamonial videos) despite his constant boasting about producing winners, has only one student I know of who has acheived competition success. This person, who I know personally, was a competative Judo Black Belt in Japan before he came on exchange to kingston for 6 months. I would argue his success is attributable more to his previous training than to his training at Martial Arts Axis.
If you're STILL not convinced... check out THIS video of cult leader "Master Daryl" in action.
It will likely be deleted once he realizes the link is posted publicly.
black_irish - Do you happen to know what lineage Darryl claims? I have looked on the website and there seems to be nothing about Darryl himself.
After reading your post and looking at the website, I can definitely see the "salesmen" aspect of the gym. Almost everything is a sales pitch not an actual explanation of the question/concept.
I am going to do some background work on Darryl. However, since he is a Canadian my resources are a bit more limited.
Here is a link to the youtube channel for Martial Arts Axis (from here on refered to as MAA)
it has some technique videos posted. Could someone with more experience than me go through them and give us an idea of where Mr. Darryl is in his instructing/training level?
Edit 2: After some google-fu I have come across Urbanski's blog.
I am just starting into it but he seems enthralled with the idea of passive income and goal setting. If you want a good sketch of Urbanski this is a good place to start. He seems to be very involved with a group called Invisible Children. They look to stop the use of children as soldiers in Uganda. I must say that after reading the Blog Urbanski seems like a rather nice guy. Very kind hearted.
Here it spoke a little bit about getting his purple belt from Taka @ Axis Jiu-jitsu.
There is a Takamasa listed as a head black belt in Japan (where Urbanski has spent quite some time according to his blog).
Also according to the blog, Urbanski received his blue belt on December 30,2006 while in Japan.
Also founded a company called "real profits". I am not super knowledgeable about real estate but I feel something is wrong here. It might just be the way it is pitched:
Here is a google search for Real Profits + Canada:
It feels sketchier.
I should say that this guy has brought in plenty of legit people for seminars (Carlos Newton and the Canadian Open Purple Belt Champ). Daryl also has a competition record in BJJ/No Gi:
Last edited by bigskymma; 3/18/2011 3:35pm at .
Reason: Youtube link - BJJ Lineage
I can tell you that according to his blog linked above, he got his blue belt in japan at:
... from a black belt named TAKAMASA WATANABE. According to the website he is a Rickson Gracie BB. I don't think there is any reason to question the lineage of his blue belt, and discovering authenticity could be very difficult in this case anyway. I can say, having watched all his videos myself, and knowing several people who have rolled with him in the past, that he is considered to be a solid blue belt in skill level. He has had some competition success, though he certainly doesn't dominate. Again, this is all at the local level, in and around Toronto at the blue belt level.
The one big thing I pick up from his videos personally is that he has a blue belts understanding of the positions and technique... his teaching style mirrors my own, as a blue belt, when showing new techniques to beginers. By this I mean he can show them the basic "macro" movements, but lacks intimate knowledge of all the subtle details and "micro" movements that really make all the difference with techniques. Those are the things that a purple-brown-black belt elaborate on, and what sets them apart as being more capable instructors... just my take.
Last edited by black_irish; 3/18/2011 3:30pm at .
Reason: name added
Im new here !
Im sorry I didnt know were to ask my question.... until I saw FSD in a forum...!
so here it gos... !
Im sorry I did not belive you guys last year wen I registerd whit them....bad moove...for my wallet !!! You guys were rigth..... wat a f#*@... money skam !!!... enyways you know wat im talking about !!!...
Now Im supose to visite this place called Senshido !
What can u tell me about them ! I dont want to make the same mistake again !
Thank you very much !
I know its maybe not the rigth discusion...but I didnt know were to go ask !
Okay, I am now watching this thread. If another fake account is created you will have both accounts banned not just one.
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