What’s the difference? – Ashiwaza

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 3/01/2011 5:14am

Originally Posted by BKR

That kohaku belt demonstrating the Kouchi Gari is Dr. John Anderson, and he really is an expert at judo, although at 70+ years old he does not move as well as he used to. I've done Judo with him (about 20 years ago), and he moved a lot better then.

Watched it again. What makes him look 'bad' is his uke, he doesn't fall properly just kind of flops around. Doesn't look comfortable being thrown, not surprising given his age and weight. Also watched it with the sound off first time round and so didn't get that he meant the up close Ko uchi to be a self-defence thing. Still not sure of its merits for self-defence, but makes a little bit more sense than I thought it did without the sound.

**ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE** · Posted On: 3/01/2011 8:39am

Originally Posted by BKR

That kohaku belt demonstrating the Kouchi Gari is Dr. John Anderson, and he really is an expert at judo, although at 70+ years old he does not move as well as he used to. I've done Judo with him (about 20 years ago), and he moved a lot better then.

He is also the corner ref who Hedgehogey got thrown on to in one of his competition videos.

In any case, that was simply a version of Kouchi Gari. The kari (gari) action is distinct from the harai action. Think of kari waza as "cutting techniques", like a scythe cutting down stalks of grain or grass, as in "reaping".

Judoka_UK, what is the most commonly taught beginning form of Kouchi Gari to which you refer?

Ben

This makes sense, the problem is that a lot poeple don't know how to use a scythe anymore. The action isn't entirely a swinging one, the finish to it is a pulling action across you're own body:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Nqw...eature=related

Which actually really makes sense in the context of aproperly executed ko-uchi-gari

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 3/01/2011 8:49am

Really good series of videos showing the progression of learning Ko uchi gari from basic 'educational drills' to situational drills to randori/shiai applications. Also progress in terms of difficulty. Starting off with what I consider the basic Ko uchi gari, then the step forwards-step backwards drill, that I really dislike for beginners because they don't know how to open their hips up properly. Then moving to the side skip/ kick out Ko uchi being discussed, Ko uchi in kenka yotsu, Ko uchi makikomi etc...

You can tell this is good Judo, in part, because the majority of the time when they throw they finish in positions advantageous to continuing into newaza.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 3/01/2011 9:18am

Another good series of videos with a long time spent on the entry for what I consider the basic Ko uchi gari. Not entirely sure I understand everything he says on it, but there must be something important seeing as he spends so long on it.

Interesting point of note is how in the French videos they seem to bring the foot round to t-up on the common step forwards-step backwards drill. I like that as it helps to open the hips much more and makes it easier to attack the chest.

Thoughts on that Ben or Coach Josh.

Ps.
Reminds me of a drill we get made to do where we tsugi ashi in a backwards zig zag alternatively doing Ko uchi and O uchi.

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/02/2011 2:39am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

This is how I was taught Ko uchi gari, except holding on to your opponent:

The one I see taught most often by other coaches is this:

Feel free to nick it.

That's OK, I don't use diagrams in class, I just use the available bodies.

The first version is more difficult, I usually teach it second. I call it a driving kouchi gari.

I typically use the method Mr. Katanishi is using. I works pretty well for beginners. I call it a drawing kouchi gari.

So that is oikomi vs hikidashi, right?

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/02/2011 2:49am

So watch how Mr. Katanishi moves when doing the tandoku renshuu vs the black belts in the background at 1:20 or so. There is a lot to learn from just watching that alone.

Also notice how he progressively teaches the movement pattern, then adds a piece at a time to build up to nagekomi (missing from this clip). Along the way, he makes note of common mistakes as well, and shows the correct action in contrast.

Finally, notice how he is using his whole body to get into position to throw. He is not tapping at uke foot to do the reap, he sticks the whole side of his body into position. Even if against a resisting opponent, he cannot get that much body contact, he has to move his body as if he is trying to do so in order for the throw to work, even if he just clips uke ankle with his foot. Otherwise it won't work.

I'm a big believer in tandoku renshuu as a training method, combined with uchikomi and basic nagekomi with simple movement patterns.

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/02/2011 2:52am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Watched it again. What makes him look 'bad' is his uke, he doesn't fall properly just kind of flops around. Doesn't look comfortable being thrown, not surprising given his age and weight. Also watched it with the sound off first time round and so didn't get that he meant the up close Ko uchi to be a self-defence thing. Still not sure of its merits for self-defence, but makes a little bit more sense than I thought it did without the sound.

Yeah, you have to elderly but knowledgeable judoka demonstrating something. That about sums it up.

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/02/2011 2:57am

Originally Posted by ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE

This makes sense, the problem is that a lot poeple don't know how to use a scythe anymore. The action isn't entirely a swinging one, the finish to it is a pulling action across you're own body:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Nqw...eature=related

Which actually really makes sense in the context of aproperly executed ko-uchi-gari

Cool video! I agree with your assessment. Notice how he never pulls the blade back towards himself, it's as you point out, across the body. The reaping actio in kouchi is to the side or corner, not directly to the front (which is a very common error).

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/02/2011 3:33am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Really good series of videos showing the progression of learning Ko uchi gari from basic 'educational drills' to situational drills to randori/shiai applications. Also progress in terms of difficulty. Starting off with what I consider the basic Ko uchi gari, then the step forwards-step backwards drill, that I really dislike for beginners because they don't know how to open their hips up properly. Then moving to the side skip/ kick out Ko uchi being discussed, Ko uchi in kenka yotsu, Ko uchi makikomi etc...

You can tell this is good Judo, in part, because the majority of the time when they throw they finish in positions advantageous to continuing into newaza.

You can tell it's good Judo because, well, it's beautiful fucking Judo.

That short haired blond kohaku belt is fantastic. It's funny how Patrick Roux talks a lot but does not do a lot of throwing.

Watch carefully the difference in how the kohaku belts use their hips versus the younger black belts (who are very good as well). The older guys have a step above in coordination versus the younger guys, but it is pretty subtle at times. Power vs precise positioning of the body and use of the whole body.

That was a years worth of kouchi gari drills and practice right there.

Great find!

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/02/2011 5:00am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Another good series of videos with a long time spent on the entry for what I consider the basic Ko uchi gari. Not entirely sure I understand everything he says on it, but there must be something important seeing as he spends so long on it.

Interesting point of note is how in the French videos they seem to bring the foot round to t-up on the common step forwards-step backwards drill. I like that as it helps to open the hips much more and makes it easier to attack the chest.

Thoughts on that Ben or Coach Josh.

Ps.
Reminds me of a drill we get made to do where we tsugi ashi in a backwards zig zag alternatively doing Ko uchi and O uchi.

The action of "mune awase" or "chest/trunk touching is really important. So the most basic thing is to teach the body positioning, and the movement he is showing emphasizes that. Notice how he shows hitting the chest and hips to uke puts uke back on his heels?

So the whole body action is really what he is after. By doing the touching, it gives the student feedback that is too hard to get at first.

Eventually, you have to move your body like that, AS IF you are going do the mune awase, even if you do not achieve it. If you look at the black and white kouchi videos you posted, you will see the same action but without chest/trunk contact, or only after the initial action and angle change have resulted in touching to finish the throw.

They bring the back foot around to t-up because that is what works. If uke has his right foot forward, then tori has to change the angle in order to push in the weak direction of uke posture. Tori can move his leg first to change the angle as well, but the jiko ashi (support leg) still has to be in a position to support tori so he can reap effectively and move his body as discussed above.

If you watch the kenka yotsu kouchi gari in the black and white videos, you can see it illustrated very well, how tori moves to the top of the triangle and "Ts up".

Mr. Katanishi must be blowing those kids minds. Way too much information! I'm guessing he was doing all that so they could get it on film and study later (the coaches).

Ben