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  1. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2011 1:58am


     Style: BJJ/MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knave View Post
    Wetware, unless I'm reading the post wrong, you have it opposite. A 100 yard zero will drop by about two feet at 360 yards, so you would be aiming very high.
    http://www.jesseshunting.com/photopo...ulletpaths.jpg
    Quite possible. I was sleep deprived at the time and didn't really feel like doing the math for it. According to that chart, a 100 yard / 100m zero is practically useless unless all you're doing is shooting at 100 yard targets.
  2. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2011 10:53am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My twist is 1/9...will that make a difference from what is on that chart?
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
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  3. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2011 10:56am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knave View Post
    Are you using a 20" barrel or 14.5/16" ? I'm assuming the latter unless otherwise stated?

    Are you using a mil spec rear sight with adjustable windage and elevation, or a back up style/flip up with no elevation adjustment?

    For rear sights with adjustable elevation, I personally prefer the revised improved battle sight zero, which requires that you "reset" the click where your elevation bottoms out. By doing so you get a bottomed-out 100 yard (or meters if you prefer that) zero, with the original bottomed-out setting now being a 50/200, while maintaining your normal 300, 400, etc settings. You can find instructions on the net of how to do this, it's easy and just requires an allen wrench. Or find someone local that can show you, or just ask if you have questions about it. It takes almost all the guess work out since your point of aim is generally never off your point of impact by more than about 2 inches assuming your elevation is properly set for the distance.


    For non adjustable elevation, I would normally recommend a 50/200 for practical purposes, but if you are specifically having to shoot at 360 yards for competition, assuming you have no targets in about the 100 to 300 range, I would recommend 25/375.

    The reason is that with a 25 yard zero, your point of aim and point of impact are nearly crossing at 360 yards. With 50/200, you have more than 10 inches of drop at 360, which is larger than your target. However, pretending I was shooting a competition and for whatever reason did not have a rear sight or optic that was either adjustable for elevation or did not have elevation markings, and if that competition had targets at, let's say 100 yards, 250 yards, and 360 yards, I would probably go with a 50/200 because my point of impact on the 100 and 250 yard targets would be within about 2 inches of my aim on the 10 inch plate, with me having to adjust for 10 inches of drop on the 360. Conversely, under those same conditions with a 25 yard zero, I would have to adjust significantly on two targets, holding low on the 100 (impact about 6 inches higher than aim) and on the 250, with the difference on the 250 being a 10 inch difference between aim and impact.


    Wetware, unless I'm reading the post wrong, you have it opposite. A 100 yard zero will drop by about two feet at 360 yards, so you would be aiming very high.



    http://www.jesseshunting.com/photopo...ulletpaths.jpg
    The rifle I'm using was built from the Del Ton A2 kit. It's got a A2 length barrel, chrome lined 1/9 twist, and the rear sight is on a detachable carrying handle. It has knobs on it so I assume it can be adjusted but I haven't done so yet. The adjustments I made so far, with the help of a friend, were on the front sight.

    Looks like the bottom line is a 25 yard zero. Well, I can do that easily enough, at an indoor range. Thanks!
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  4. tgace is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2011 11:52am


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Buy a magnifying optic.
  5. Knave is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2011 11:31am


     Style: bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So it's a 20" barrel? I'm assuming it has a 8/3 rear sight?

    IMO, for 99% of shooters there's not enough difference in trajectory between a 20" barrel and a 14.5" or 16" to notice, but the 8/3 sight vs. 6/3 sight does make some difference.

    Don't mean to insult anyone if this is common knowledge to users here, but on a M16 sight, "from the factory," the sight is generally designed to be bottomed out at the 8/3 mark (or 6/3 for M4's and many or most commercial AR15 sights). Then your original military zero was for 300 meters, and here my memory is a little fuzzy, but I believe the first crossover for that is around 36 yards. Meaning if you bottom out your sight at the 8/3 or 6/3, then zero at 36 yards or so, your 8/3 or 6/3 mark is zero'd for 300 meters, the 4 mark is zero'd for 400 meters, 5 for 500, then on a 6/3 sight you come back around to the 6/3 top'd out and are zero'd for 600 meters, on a 8/3 you get a 7 mark for 700 and top out at 8/3 for 800 meters.

    Then you have Santose come up with resetting the rear sight drum to bottom out 2 clicks lower than the 8/3, or IIRC 4 clicks lower than the 6/3. What this does is allow the shooter to zero that new bottomed out click at 50 yards, which gives a 200 meter zero and has alot of practical benefits since you have a point of impact with 2.5" or so of point of aim from 0 to 250 yards. Then the sight is raised from the new bottom'd out spot to the 8/3 or 6/3 which is still a good 300 meter zero, the 4 is still a 400, etc.

    This was originally used with 55gr M193 ammo, and therefore the same trajectory doesn't apply exactly for other rounds which has to be considered if you use different bullet weight than that. Also note that the 50/200 is 50 yards/200 meters though often gets confused or taken for granted as a 50yard/200yard, which is close enough I guess.

    So my point is that how you zero may depend on your purposes.

    Assuming you are using 55gr ammo, that chart will be close enough to get you on target, and you can make minor adjustments from there if need be.


    If you zero your 8/3 marking for 25 yards by bottoming out and then adjusting the front sight, your 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 marks no longer really mean anything because your bottomed out 8/3 will be a 375ish yard zero rather than a 300 meter zero. This isn't really a problem if you are only worried about the competition shoot distances, and plan on using the 25 yard zero (with crossover at 375ish yards) to aim for point of aim/point of impact on the 360 yard target, and use a little guess work for holding low on targets closer than that.

    Or, the really easiest thing is to have a magnified optic with bullet drop markings for a M16 with 55gr ammo, which may not be allowed in the competition?
    Last edited by Knave; 3/01/2011 11:40am at .
  6. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2011 2:18pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm betting you'd be shooting from a sitting, kneeling or prone position.

    Hitting a 10" plate from 360 yards from the standing position with open sights is not an easy shot.
  7. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2011 11:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post

    I could shoot a 4 inch group at 500 standing. Which pissed one of my Drill Instructors off.

    this pisses ME off! lol.

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  8. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2011 11:47pm

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     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not to derail the thread, but Moosey, what is you qualification?

    Semper Fi, do or die
  9. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2011 12:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Expert, of course. 231 on table 1, 97 on table 2 (out of 250/100 respectivly) for 327/350

    Josh, why were you shooting standing at 500 yds, in boot camp?

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
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