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  1. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 12:01am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can see the value of headgear in reducing headclash damage under boxing rules, I've had more than a few of them in the last three months.

    Jason wasn't referring to a boxing clinch.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  2. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 12:23am

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    From the study: EFFECTIVENESS OF BOXING HEADGEAR FOR LIMITING INJURY:

    Based on the current effort,
    the currently designed headgear and
    gloves are effective in reducing the risk
    of injury.
    Link didn't work for me, did some goggle-fu and found the study here: http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2006/pdfs/242.pdf

    As a registered professional engineer I can tell you the science in the study seems good. Before I read this I really didn't think headgear did much to head/brain injury, the study seems to indicate otherwise.

    Things to keep in mind, the study was limited to one type of head gear and one specific type of punch, i.e. a hook. Even the study recommends further study on different types of punches and with different types of headgear.
  3. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 2:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TBH I dislike sparring people who won't wear headgear. I like to headkick and feel like have to exercise so much control to the point where I'm more trying to hold back than throw my technique, which is a crappy way to practice.
  4. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 2:38am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    Link didn't work for me, did some goggle-fu and found the study here: http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2006/pdfs/242.pdf

    As a registered professional engineer I can tell you the science in the study seems good. Before I read this I really didn't think headgear did much to head/brain injury, the study seems to indicate otherwise.

    Things to keep in mind, the study was limited to one type of head gear and one specific type of punch, i.e. a hook. Even the study recommends further study on different types of punches and with different types of headgear.
    Am I right in assuming that those forces, though decreased, are still enough to cause knockout?
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  5. Kill A Bee is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 3:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Looks like I won't be wearing headgear until I stop being a poor bastard (payday in less than 2 weeks!) and can buy my very own helmet that I can make sure is comfortable, clean and the right size.

    It does feel very uncomfortable to have a 10 year old helmet that is full of germs, worn out and sometimes not even the right size.

    Before I get money and maybe also sometimes after just for the sake of it, I'll stick to just using my thick skull as the only protection :)

    Thanks for the helpful advice and pointers everyone!
  6. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 3:59am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung View Post
    Am I right in assuming that those forces, though decreased, are still enough to cause knockout?
    Surprisingly not. The best measure of what affect a punch will have on a person in this study is the Head Injury Criterion (HIC). Equating HIC scores to level or injury or damage is difficult, but a score of 250 is the most accepted value as concussion/ko.

    The punches in the study had a HIC of 79 without head gear and and 47 with.
  7. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 4:50am

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    Surprisingly not. The best measure of what affect a punch will have on a person in this study is the Head Injury Criterion (HIC). Equating HIC scores to level or injury or damage is difficult, but a score of 250 is the most accepted value as concussion/ko.

    The punches in the study had a HIC of 79 without head gear and and 47 with.
    So there was never a serious threat of concussion or knockout to begin with?
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  8. SifuJason is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 9:58am


     Style: WHKD (Kaju), Sub. Grapple

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang View Post
    I can see the value of headgear in reducing headclash damage under boxing rules, I've had more than a few of them in the last three months.

    Jason wasn't referring to a boxing clinch.
    How we train, we switch between them, so I just view clinches as +/- strikes.
  9. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 10:20am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    agreed. clinching in headgear is fucking retarded anyway because i never fight in headgear, and you're never going to fight in headgear in teh streetz. if you seriously wear it to prevent **** like abrasions on your neck from gloves, perhaps a sport like darts or softball would be preferable.
    In many states the boxing commission requires headgear be worn in amateur fights, whether boxing or kickboxing. So many of us would be wearing headgear when we fight in competition.

    Anyway it's not OK for me to show up to work with a beat up face. I make concessions but still get to participate in a sport I love. Wearing headgear on occasion is a concession I am willing to make. Taking up darts/softball is not.

    I assume teh streetz comment was a joke.

    tldr: I'm too old to be hardcore.
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



  10. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2011 6:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung View Post
    So there was never a serious threat of concussion or knockout to begin with?
    Not necesaarily. The 250 is not an exact number and HIC is based on probabilities and percentages. For example car air bags in America need to reduce the HIC in car crashes to below 700 to get and "acceptable rating". A score of 700 apparently equates to a 5% chance of a serious, irreversible brain injury. It would be possible for a punch for a HIC score 80 or even 50 to knock someone out, give the a concssion, or even kill them, it just isn't as likely.

    The 250 number is based on doctors recommendations that amateur athletes should not subjected to impacts resulting in HIC scores over 250 in any sport, boxing, american football, etc.

    What the study and the 250 numbers don't adequately address, is repeated impacts. Do five hits with a HIC score of 50 equal one with 250? Probably not. Are five 50's better or worse than one 250, no one really knows.
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