Jon Fitch gets in a Knife Fight

**PizDoff** · Posted On: 2/15/2011 11:22pm

Jon Fitch gets in a Knife Fight is the name of the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGUoZyJs18

Apparently Ultimate Fighting Championship title contender and mixed martial artist John Fitch spent last Nov. 2010 training in the Army MACP. He does 'live' training with some guy, then also goes against BJJ black belt Dave Camarillo. They apparently use a Shocknife

I don't know much about weapons training, but recent events have reinforced the idea that it can hit really close to him. What do you guys think of this video? Helps to be a great grappler yes?

**EmperorCesar** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 12:13am

Live knife fight training? My katas are good enough, thank you.

**robotjox** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 2:30am

Originally Posted by EmperorCesar

Live knife fight training? My katas are good enough, thank you.

LOL. I have trained BJJ and Kali and am alarmed to see then mashed together in such a way. Two totally different combative concepts that share very little common ground. I was amazed when the guy tries to double-leg a knife-wielding Fitch. I wolud give him about two seconds.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 4:47am

Originally Posted by robotjox

I was amazed when the guy tries to double-leg a knife-wielding Fitch. I wolud give him about two seconds.

How long do you give anyone against a UFC title contender with a blade?

**Lord Skeletor** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 6:47am

I can say from experience that trying to use jiu-jitsu against a knifer is almost always a bad idea....unless you have no other choice. Guard, side control, rear mount, front mount---almost always leads to death or serious bodily injury against an experienced knifer.

Oh...and in before the BJJ guys come in and say that they can armbar/choke the guy before he slashes/stabs their femorals, brachials, subclavian branch, carotid/jugular, hearts, lung into the middle of next week.

Your best defense against a knifer is a firearm---with plenty of distance and intermediate obstacles between you. I don't really see the harm in trying to practice defending yourself against a blade on the ground...but just don't be misled when it comes to your ability (and odds) of surviving such an attempt. I'm a big fan of the shock knife, by the way. :happy:

**Gezere** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 7:36am

Originally Posted by Lord Skeletor

I can say from experience that trying to use jiu-jitsu against a knifer is almost always a bad idea....unless you have no other choice. Guard, side control, rear mount, front mount---almost always leads to death or serious bodily injury against an experienced knifer.

I don't care how good you are with a knife. If I got your back you're dead.
We do Shockknife fights often and I've used Judo and JJ to great effect doing it.
In a real knife fight it saved my ass so I definitely can't discount it.
With that said yes I agree only use grappling if you have no other options but grappling with definitely help you out.

Oh...and in before the BJJ guys come in and say that they can armbar/choke the guy before he slashes/stabs their femorals, brachials, subclavian branch, carotid/jugular, hearts, lung into the middle of next week.

I have literally put my life on it and I'm still here. Granted it wasn't Plan A.

Your best defense against a knifer is a firearm---with plenty of distance and intermediate obstacles between you. I don't really see the harm in trying to practice defending yourself against a blade on the ground...but just don't be misled when it comes to your ability (and odds) of surviving such an attempt. I'm a big fan of the shock knife, by the way. :happy:

Of course gun beats knife with distance but as we all know fights don't always go the way we planned. I my case I was unarmed, save for a cloth back that I used as best I could, against two jackasses one armed with a knife.
I think the best thing these drills do is show people how vulnerable they are. The hollywood disarms and ninja tricks go out the window. Then there was the lotion incident.......

**Chili Pepper** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 8:33am

If I had some magical ability to keep knife-wielders from closing the gap, then yeah, grappling wouldn't be of use. But, since my magic seems fleeting these days ...

Loved the clip. Only thing I would have wanted to see differently was if they put on some eye protection so that they could slash at the face. The reliance on cutting at the stomach meant that the defenders were leading with their faces.

**PizDoff** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 11:07am

I made this thread not to see BJJ/wrestling vs anything, or knife beats your martial arts. The reason I made this thread was to see get thoughts on how your current existing martial arts could help you in a surprise knife attack scenario.

Originally Posted by robotjox

LOL. I have trained BJJ and Kali and am alarmed to see then mashed together in such a way. Two totally different combative concepts that share very little common ground. I was amazed when the guy tries to double-leg a knife-wielding Fitch. I wolud give him about two seconds.

After your initial alarm what did the analytical part of your brain say?

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 6:28pm

I think it is great to train with a knife like that regularly. There are a lot of techniques that can be applied to a knife wielding opponent, but you will have to alter the way you are doing them a little bit. So training this way will allow you to mentally process the changes so that they will come to the surface when you need them.

I was cut by someone with a knife before. I didn't know I was cut till after it was over. The scar is about 6 inches long and almost an inch wide in the middle. So it was a good cut. But he got jumped on, and I didn't have to fight him.

Stick fighting changed my views on most of this, and I continue to add to my game. But to me the biggest difference is distance and being aware of the object. I have yet to see a really good knife fighting system. We used one called "Pat, wrap, and attack" when I went through the academy. It was the best out at the time. It was OK, but still not that great.

Live training like these guys, is the best way to get it worked out, IMHO.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 2/16/2011 6:41pm

Originally Posted by PizDoff

I made this thread not to see BJJ/wrestling vs anything, or knife beats your martial arts. The reason I made this thread was to see get thoughts on how your current existing martial arts could help you in a surprise knife attack scenario.

Coming from a traditional kung fu background and then moving on to FMA, I'd say my current training has helped me to use active footwork to make defense more possible, especially in terms of moving towards a position of relative safety as part of a good defense. Without those things, you have to be very fast to make anything work.