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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 12:10pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I still find it funny people believe the Chinese, with their long history of warfare, never learned to grapple.
    Sources now, in context to what is being discussed. If you are looking for a semantics argument your posts will be removed. Read Omega's, resonance and my posts carefully.
  2. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 12:26pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh noes... please don't have any more arguments about the awesome chinese ground grapplers of old that never existed. I really don't need to read any more about that on yet another forum.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 1:05pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't want to start any arguments. My own personal conception of "CMA grappling" is largely chin na techniques, trained alive on the ground with a resisting partner. I understand chin na is not a "style" of it's own and is more or less a component of many individual CMA.
  4. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 1:20pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    My own personal conception of "CMA grappling" is largely chin na techniques, trained alive on the ground with a resisting partner.
    Do you train this way?
  5. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 1:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But but.... chin-na?
    Reminds me of the time I called a dojang because they advertised BJJ classes. The instructor told me it was hapkido.

    Besides, everyone knows that somewhere out there, there's a taoist mountain sage that's just dying to teach a morbidly obese white guy secret Chinese grappling arts.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
  6. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 1:30pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Do you train this way?
    Personally? I am moving into stand up live sparring and throws/takedowns. Chin na standing and on the ground is considered more advanced but we've been shown basic techniques for training later down the road...I'm not in any hurry because a lot of it seems similar to the Judo submission techniques I learned in college.

    I've always thought Chin Na, Judo, and jujutsu share a lot but maybe that's just my noob opinion. If I'm wrong someone will show me the way.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/15/2011 1:33pm at .
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 1:41pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Personally? Where I am I am just getting into stand up sparring and throws/takedowns, chin na standing and on the ground is considered more advanced but we've been shown basic techniques. I've always thought Chin Na, Judo, and jujutsu share a lot but maybe that's just my noob opinion.
    I'd say that chin na and JJJ have a lot of similarities, but both arts have a lot of techniques that start with someone grabbing you, and then you put them in a wristlock, or other specific techniques where they do something and end up on the ground with some kind of hold. But you can't just take that and put it on the ground and suddenly it's great, even if you add resistance.

    I've not seen a positional hierarchy/system/matrix on the ground in CMA. The chin na I learned and taught had certain final positions where you would control them with your weight, but that was different than the positional system we used in grappling (which was basically lifted from BJJ). For example, some locks would end by dragging them onto their stomach and applying a hammerlock as you weigh down with one knee on the back of the neck and one pressing the body. Does it work? Well, if you get someone in that final position and have some idea about how to maintain the position, it's very hard to escape from. Does it come up in submission grappling? No, I don't think I've ever seen it.

    In my opinion, taking chin na and relearning to apply it on the ground is taking the long, inefficient way to learn groundfighting. It's like you own a car factory, but you want a plane and figure you can machine one at your factory with your car knowhow. Will your plane work? Maybe, maybe not, but the planes they make at the plane factory definitely work.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 3:04pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    ]
    I've not seen a positional hierarchy/system/matrix on the ground in CMA. The chin na I learned and taught had certain final positions where you would control them with your weight, but that was different than the positional system we used in grappling (which was basically lifted from BJJ). For example, some locks would end by dragging them onto their stomach and applying a hammerlock as you weigh down with one knee on the back of the neck and one pressing the body. Does it work? Well, if you get someone in that final position and have some idea about how to maintain the position, it's very hard to escape from. Does it come up in submission grappling? No, I don't think I've ever seen it.
    This and why I jumped your ****. This was explicitly defined in this thread Rabbit. Your theories, that are all through this website posted by other CMA nutriders, are derails and an entirely different topic. I will gladly move this to another thread and it can be discussed.


    In my opinion, taking chin na and relearning to apply it on the ground is taking the long, inefficient way to learn groundfighting. It's like you own a car factory, but you want a plane and figure you can machine one at your factory with your car knowhow. Will your plane work? Maybe, maybe not, but the planes they make at the plane factory definitely work.
    Yep, and every decade we have someone trying to reinvent the <insert CMA techniques> works on the ground scenario.
  9. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 3:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I've not seen a positional hierarchy/system/matrix on the ground in CMA.
    Does

    If on top, stab ************ under you.

    If on bottom, stab ************ atop you.


    count as such a matrix? Cuz that's my learnin's...
  10. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2011 5:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Personally? I am moving into stand up live sparring and throws/takedowns. Chin na standing and on the ground is considered more advanced but we've been shown basic techniques for training later down the road...I'm not in any hurry because a lot of it seems similar to the Judo submission techniques I learned in college.

    I've always thought Chin Na, Judo, and jujutsu share a lot but maybe that's just my noob opinion. If I'm wrong someone will show me the way.
    uh, yeah, i'm pretty familiar with what you're talking about, since i tried really hard to apply chin na to groundfighting, and apply hung ga principles on the ground. yes, it is possible to do, but i don't think it's the most productive method, and i don't think it is a useful approach when sparring/fighting with someone with some groundfighting skill. base your ground fighting on judo/BJJ and you will be better off.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
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