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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    To Wing Chun or Not to Wing Chun is the question

    I have been learning Wing Chun for a year and a half and have recently started Muay Thai. My intention was to continue with both arts, but I have some serious doubts about the efficacy of WC and this comes out when I spar in WC classes because my style automatically reverts to more of MT.

    This may be because of my lack of understanding and I would like to hear from other WC practitioners (especially those with experience in other martial arts).

    My main concerns are as follows:
    1. Boxing/MT punches are much more powerful and have more refined defenses (chin down, shoulder protecting the vulnerable part of the head, etc)

    2. Is Chi Sao sensitivity useful against people who do not do chi sao themselves?

    3. I find the passive defense of MT more practical than the active blocking of WC especially against skilled opponents.

    For those of you who argue that I should learn a grappling art, I concur and hope to add that to my skill set in the future

  2. #2
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look no further noob!

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...threadid=10368

    I personally love wing chun, and I think it works very well with MT. Then again, maybe (a) your WC sifu is not good, (b) you are a bad wing chuner, or (c) wing chun is simply not your cup of tea, and you adapt more easily (for any number of reasons) to MT.

    If your situation fits into (c), above, you should indeed leave wing chun and concentrate on MT.

    If I am not mistaken, Prone also does wing chun, and he also regularly spars with MT guys.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats

  3. #3
    HAPKO3's Avatar
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    10th Planet JJ
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What are your goals?

    If you want to be a better fighter, do MT.

    If you want to do pretty forms and chi sau, do WC.

    Pretty simple, really.
    You say what about my rice?

  4. #4
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by HAPKO3
    What are your goals?

    If you want to be a better fighter, do MT.

    If you want to do pretty forms and chi sau, do WC.

    Pretty simple, really.
    You didnīt read my thread, did you.

    And/or you donīt know much about wing chun.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats

  5. #5
    HAPKO3's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did read and comment on your thread.

    It is clear, and backed up by all sorts of empirecal evidence, that MT training produces better fighters than WC training does.

    Period.

    Nothing to argue.

    Thus, if your goal is fighting efficiency, then MT is clearly a superior choice.

    If your goals are different, then it's a different question.

    You're not stupid. Why are you arguing?

    EDIT: No, I didn't comment on that one. You've started a bunch of WC/MT threads lately...
    Last edited by HAPKO3; 3/10/2004 2:09pm at .
    You say what about my rice?

  6. #6
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hapko, you did not comment ON my thread. If you said something about it elsewhere, feel free to post a link, but that does defeat the purpose of the thread itself.

    "It is clear, and backed up by all sorts of empirecal evidence, that MT training produces better fighters than WC training does."

    I agree with you. Statiscally, that is probably what happens. But I donīt care about statistics, I care about my (and the n00bīs) training, and I found that my WC training fits very nicely with my MT training. MA training is a very personal thing, and it should be analyzed as such, instead of using broad generalizations such as "wc sucks" or "mt rocks", which is precisely what you are doing.

    That is why I am arguing. And no, I am not stupid.

    EDIT: No, I only started one MT/WC thread!
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats

  7. #7
    HAPKO3's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I can understand where you're coming from. 'Guess I'd be defensive too if I were in your shoes.

    I'm not bashing WC either.

    I'm just saying that if this guy wants to be the best fighter he can be, he shouldn't be doing it.

    WC can be great, fullfilling, whatever. And I'm sure there's good WC places that will teach you how to fight. They just won't teach you how to fight as well as training and competing in MT will. That's all.
    You say what about my rice?

  8. #8
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by HAPKO3
    WC can be great, fullfilling, whatever. And I'm sure there's good WC places that will teach you how to fight. They just won't teach you how to fight as well as training and competing in MT will. That's all.
    In fact, thatīs precisely why I asked the guy about his teacher. IMO, itīs all about sparring and hard training really. If his wc teacher doesnīt do that, he is probably better off with a MT coach.

    And yes, statiscally he should be doing MT, we all should be doing MT, and maybe BJJ, just that. But some people can get fine teachers in other arts, and some people can make other arts work better for them than MT and BJJ. Which is why there are people out there who are not bullshido and who do other stuff.

    But since the guys seems to be naturally falling back to MT, IN HIS PARTICULAR CASE I think he should actually concentrate on that.

    And frankly, I think the best way to learn how to fight is to spar against people of as many styles as possible.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats

  9. #9

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    WingTsun Savate
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To wing_muay's 3 points After a year and a half you see to have learned nothing. Point by point:

    Point 1. Here you state that there punches are more powerfull which is true but they leve them selfs more open when generating an all out punch.

    Point 2. Yes absolutly Chi sau is perfect for those who don't know/understand it. Try it with a friend some time ask him to try to get to your face you should be able to stick and move him where you want. Just remember the 3 principals of Dan Chi-sau provided you were taught them.

    Point 3. quote "active blocking of WC " there are no blocks in WC/T every thing is a failed puch From Tan sau to bong sau they should all have started as a punch.

  10. #10
    HAPKO3's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    bullshit on the first 2 points.
    You say what about my rice?

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