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  1. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2011 3:34am

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Expecting to do better against your coach is probably unrealistic at this stage.
    Of course. I was just pointing out that the way I'm grip fighting worked against the beginners, but against somebody who knew what they were doing it had a very detrimental effect.

    You might try asking a randori partner to agree to getting equal sleeve and lapel grips and doing some randori that way instead of going for dominant grips all the time.
    We do this fairly regularly.

    At a more fundamental level than grip fighting, you need to continue to work on your fundamentals/basics, tsurikomi, movement and basic throwing skills. Relying on a "silver bullet" "Georgian Grip" at your stage might not be as beneficial as you think.

    Ben
    That's fair enough.
  2. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 4:41am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Of course. I was just pointing out that the way I'm grip fighting worked against the beginners, but against somebody who knew what they were doing it had a very detrimental effect.

    We do this fairly regularly.

    That's fair enough.
    I'm glad to hear you do what I call "regular randori". It's very helpful to develop your Judo.

    The "power" grip on the shoulder is useful, however, you can develop good control with a normal lapel grip as well. A key is to make sure your hand is not lower or higher than your shoulder when you place it on uke collar, as well as keeping your elbow down. Keeping your elbow down also goes for the sleeve hand as well.

    Your hands/arms act as shock absorbers between yourself and uke. You can maintain distance or get closer depending on what you want to do.

    Ben
  3. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 9:26am

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'm glad to hear you do what I call "regular randori". It's very helpful to develop your Judo.
    Well it depends on whether competitions are coming up and other factors, but it's fairly common for our coach to put restrictions like that on our randori.

    The "power" grip on the shoulder is useful, however, you can develop good control with a normal lapel grip as well. A key is to make sure your hand is not lower or higher than your shoulder when you place it on uke collar, as well as keeping your elbow down. Keeping your elbow down also goes for the sleeve hand as well.
    If this is in reference to my previous post, I was talking about trying to put pressure on my opponents power arm, not about the pressure I was applying with my own power arm.

    Usually when I'm trying to control that arm, I tend to think of it in terms of controlling the hand, but last Thursday I decided to take the approach of really clamping down and trying to control it right up to the shoulder. (If that makes sense) It did seem to work on a few guys, but was very tiring, as people really start to fight when you start doing that to them.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 9:31am

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    If this is in reference to my previous post, I was talking about trying to put pressure on my opponents power arm, not about the pressure I was applying with my own power arm.

    Usually when I'm trying to control that arm, I tend to think of it in terms of controlling the hand, but last Thursday I decided to take the approach of really clamping down and trying to control it right up to the shoulder. (If that makes sense) It did seem to work on a few guys, but was very tiring, as people really start to fight when you start doing that to them.
    By power arm do you mean their hikite or tsurite? If you're unfamiliar with the Japanese then the hikite would be the hand they grip your sleeve with and tsurite your collar. People usually call the the tsurite the 'power hand', but not alway, so its just worth clarifiying.
  5. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 9:41am

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    tsurite
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 9:58am

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    tsurite
    Ok cool. Just checking we're all talking about the same thing. How exactly are you controlling it at the shoulder?

    Because as you say the normal method is to control the hand/wrist and keep it down and away from you:


    Turning your own palm downwards to pin uke's arm and weight down. Also forcing them to adopt an unnatural posture i.e left leg forward for a righty.

    There are some temporary positions within gripping sequences where you might try and and control uke's wrist very close to their own shoulder or chest. These, however, tend to be positions you move through rather than seek to actively take and hold. Unless you're specifically working a negative Judo strategy to negate an aspects of your opponents Judo rather than trying to seek a better grip for yourself to empower your own Judo.

    Is that what you're doing or something different?
  7. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 10:15am

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    So I'm talking about taking a grip somewhere closer to the elbow, twisting the fabric tight and then pulling so they're in the position you describe, or at least in a position where they're not so free to step and tug their arm free.

    I'm not talking about physically grabbing the shoulder, just that I'm trying to pay more attention to the fact that the thing I've grabbed is attached to a shoulder.
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 10:19am

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    So I'm talking about taking a grip somewhere closer to the elbow, twisting the fabric tight and then pulling so they're in the position you describe, or at least in a position where they're not so free to step and tug their arm free.

    I'm not talking about physically grabbing the shoulder, just that I'm trying to pay more attention to the fact that the thing I've grabbed is attached to a shoulder.
    Ahh I get it. Is there a particular strategy or objective you have for using this method or is it just to help you conceptualise something better?
  9. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 10:46am

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Ahh I get it. Is there a particular strategy or objective you have for using this method or is it just to help you conceptualise something better?
    Right now it's mainly a conceptual thing, but it is also something I'm trying so I can deal with the power grippers.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/08/2011 11:11am

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Right now it's mainly a conceptual thing, but it is also something I'm trying so I can deal with the power grippers.
    Righto, is this something your coach has been showing you or you're trying to improve in your own game.

    As normally if someone has a strong grip that is breaking your posture and bringing your head down, then its best to concentrate on stripping the grip off and regaining your posture. The ideal way to do that isn't normally through seeking to control their elbow whilst they still have the grip on you. However, if you've been given something specific to work on by your coach I don't want to poo-poo it and second guess some bigger plan he may have.
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