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  1. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 2:45pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Let's talk about my judo performance

    Hi,

    Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but anyway here goes.

    I was at a judo tournament over the weekend, and for the very first time ever, I remembered to give somebody my phone to video me.

    Here are two of those videos, a win and a loss. I'm actually more interested in talking about the one I won, as I was going for a crazy[*] Georgian grip, and even though I won with it, I'm still not sure I'm doing it right.
    YouTube - Judo match 1

    Here's the one I lost. Thought I could drop for a tani-otoshi, but looks like my opponent thought otherwise.
    YouTube - judo match 2
    [*]The Georgian grip is, of course, not all that crazy, but it's not my current coach's style at all, so it's a bit hard to get advice on it.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 3:24pm

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     Style: Judo

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    What level of competition was this, in terms of grade?
  3. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 3:29pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    I'm orange, the guy I beat was blue, the guy who beat me is white, but has wrestling experience.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 3:46pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Okay,

    Gripping:
    The first 20 seconds of the first video. You don't seem to have a coherent gripping strategy for working towards throwing the arm over the top. You fail to secure your opponents tsurite sleeve hand and side before you throw the arm.



    Circled in red he has a high collar grip on you twisting in your left side and pulling your head down, this wrecks your posture and prevents you from throwing the arm over the top. Hence why you engage in a bit of a struggle before collapsing.

    At 30 seconds to 35 you have the same problem with not controlling the sleeve and throwing the arm wildly. No control over your opponent and therefore no real ability to throw.

    35+ you finally get a decent control over the sleeve collapsing in his right side and making it easier to throw the arm over the top. You need more experience from this position in controlling your opponent and keeping their posture broken whilst retaining yours.

    Contest acumen:
    Because you're still a beginner and you lack contest acumen as well as struglling with the gripping situation, you're a bit all over the place. You're launching attacks from unrealistic situations with little control and leaving yourself open to being countered.

    You need to; develop a gripping strategy for achieving your desired grip. Work on breaking and keeping uke's posture broken whilst maintaining your own. Calming down a little and let yourself settle into the match a bit more. Try not to rush things and concentrate on getting your grip, posture situation and imposing your rhythm.

    Second video.
    My fee kicks in.
  5. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 4:29pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the detailed response.

    One question. When I take that grip, or even when I'm just going for it, I'm very concious that I have to do something quickly or I'll get a penalty, which makes me even more rash than usual. So I like this grip, and I like the throws I can get off it, but do you think I should forget about it until I can keep things more controlled, and stick to using orthodox grips for the time being?
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 5:33pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Thanks for the detailed response.

    One question. When I take that grip, or even when I'm just going for it, I'm very concious that I have to do something quickly or I'll get a penalty, which makes me even more rash than usual. So I like this grip, and I like the throws I can get off it, but do you think I should forget about it until I can keep things more controlled, and stick to using orthodox grips for the time being?
    No problem.

    If you watch the match you lost you will notice some things. Red breaks your posture using the high collar grip forcing your head down and making you bend over. He also controls your tsurite hand quite well for a beginner and as a consequence of these two things you never really have a chance. You launch the tani otoshi attempt with zero control over you opponent so even if you hadn't been countered its highly unlikely you would have been able to score.

    Its quite difficult to get a decent screen shot because of the jerkiness of the video, but I think this shows quite well your problem.



    Red has control of the end of your tsurite sleeve, you're mid way through an attempt to free yourself from that grip. He also has your posture broken with the high collar grip. From here you being thrown is inevtiable.

    My personal view is that fighting from the traditional grip is better for teaching people the principles of control. However, that requires an instructor who is capable and comfortable teaching that style. So I would advise the traditional sleeve and lapel, however, with the necessary contest bits like controlling the tsurite arm and forcing uke to fight wrong footed.

    You might find my thread on contest gripping to be useful:
    Fundamentals of Contest Judo – Gripping - No BS MMA and Martial Arts


    As you can see 80/90% of it is about controlling your opponents sleeve and not getting yours controlled. At your level this is probably the most important grip fighting idea to have in your head. However, becareful not to fall into the trap of just wandering around with one hand on the sleeve, always fight two handed to their one hand.
  7. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 7:03pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Its quite difficult to get a decent screen shot because of the jerkiness of the video, but I think this shows quite well your problem.


    Oh dear god, it really looks bad when you freeze it like that. For the record I was trying to do something like this.

    but I've made a total balls of it - pulling instead of pushing.

    I also got greedy when I saw his feet move into sweeping range - didn't even bother trying to finish the grip break.
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/31/2011 7:10pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Oh dear god, it really looks bad when you freeze it like that. For the record I was trying to do something like this.

    but I've made a total balls of it - pulling instead of pushing.

    I also got greedy when I saw his feet move into sweeping range - didn't even bother trying to finish the grip break.
    If you froze the 2 of my matches that people have been arsed to film at any point I wouldn't look great. Doubt many people would.

    I have seen that 'grip break' before. I don't really rate it. I think its a weak method and isn't effective as the skill levels get higher. My advice would be to concentrate on the methods I outlined in the linked thread.

    If you don't have grip. posture and control then no matter how they move their feet your highly unlikely to be effective with a sweep attempt.
  9. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2011 5:08pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Sooo, quick update.

    Due to work and laziness and ****, I haven't been to judo until tonight. During randori, I concentrated on controlling my opponents power arm, keeping it off my lapel and putting pressure on the shoulder to mess up their posture. Every now and then I'd give it a big tug and try to throw the arm over for the O-soto, but only if they were gifting it to me. Mainly I was going for hari goshi. It was pretty negative judo to be honest, but over the next few classes I'll try and make it more attacking.

    First person I was up against was the guy who beat me on Sunday. It worked really well, he got pretty frustrated and started going for pretty ill judged throws. Next I was up against the club smashing machine - he smashed me. Smashed me good.

    Against my coach, things fell apart. While I was busy grip fighting, he basically tore me apart with sticky foot ko-sotos, and other ashi waza.

    Then once I got tired, my ability to break grips, and even just avoid being gripped really took a dive, even against the total noobs. I'm guessing that this is mainly because my technique is ****, but well have to see how this changes in the future.

    All in all, I think tonight's randori session was an interesting experiment, but not one I want to draw too many conclusions form as I was being hyper defensive, and it's definitely not a style I want to pursue. For one thing, it was the most boring session I have had possibly ever.

    PS. I hate this new layout and the way my beautiful videos no longer display.
    Last edited by CrackFox; 2/03/2011 5:11pm at . Reason: This new version of the forum sucks
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2011 12:36am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It sounds like you saw an improvement. You were able to control the guy who beat you. Expecting to do better against your coach is probably unrealistic at this stage.

    The thing about serious grip fighting is that it takes an incredible amount of mental and physical discipline to consistently pull it off. You also have to be in very good shape physically. It is very draining compared to just getting an equal sleeve and lapel control grip and doing Judo.

    You might try asking a randori partner to agree to getting equal sleeve and lapel grips and doing some randori that way instead of going for dominant grips all the time.

    At a more fundamental level than grip fighting, you need to continue to work on your fundamentals/basics, tsurikomi, movement and basic throwing skills. Relying on a "silver bullet" "Georgian Grip" at your stage might not be as beneficial as you think.

    Ben
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