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  1. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 9:39pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Dear Diary: my MT and WC Experiences

    As per Whiteshark´s request, I will record on this thread my most significant experiences regarding Muay Thai (which I´ve been doing for about a month now), specially those related to my wing chun training (which, of bloody course, I still do). Please note that I´ve been doing wing chun for only about 20 months now, so I am not really an authority on either of those systems - this will be just a record of my personal experiences.

    A brief overview of my WC and MT classes:

    WC: we usually do lots of base training. We practice some drills, both on air and against each other. We also hit pads (punching them mostly)in order to develop punching power. We also practice forms, but we don´t really spend more than 10 minutes each class on those. Lately I and the other advanced students (it´s a small class) have been doing some really neat stepping exercises to keep our structure and base solid while moving. My sifu is also very careful to keep us punching and parrying in the centerline when we practice, of course. Up to the moment we haven´t really done much kicking. We don´t really do much exercise in my wc class, as we only train 2:30 hours every week (saturday mornings).

    MT: very good aerobic exercises, as well as push ups and other kinds of exercise. Really good stretching. We also do some exercises geared towards conditioning our chins and other body parts - I only did this on one class, we did exercises to condition our forearms and shins. Techniques-wise, we have so far praticed drills - punches and kicks in the air or at pads. I have practiced jabs and round punches (the lateral ones are named round punches, right? parallel to the floor), as well as frontal and roundkicks aimed at thighs and ribs (I cannot yet reach heads). I go to two classes per week, every tuesday and thursday, about 1 and a 1/2 hour each class.

    I sparred today! My partner was a much stronger, and very experienced, thai student. He was also bigger than me. He sparred against a beginner (some months experience) thai student before sparring me, and I noticed the other guy was mostly afraid of getting into punching range (comprehensible, given the size difference).

    We used heavy boxing gloves and shin guards (I will buy a mouth guard, I promised myself and my girlfriend).

    Well, first of all I´d just like to state that that guy is much tougher, experienced, stronger, faster and technical than me. He could certainly have kicked my ass if he really wanted to. We did some very light sparring (though punches to the head were allowed), although he was moving quite fast - he just wasn´t using all his power (neither was I, for that matter, but he still could have crushed me if he wanted to, I have no doubt about that).

    The sparring: he used some kicks, which I was able to evade and/or block with my arms (I know, that was stupid). But mostly I tried and managed to keep inside punching range, where I kept a good old wing chun guard (I don´t think the MT coach particularly liked that). Well, surprise surprise - the wing chun guard and the parries worked beautifully against his punches!

    I landed a LOT of punches on his face, while he only clipped my right ear once (it´s still hot, but what the hell). My control of the centerline really helped: he had quite a bit of difficulty blocking my straight punches, while he could only use round punches and hooks himself (good ole tan sao did his job very well - hey, I´ve been practicing), as he couldn´t shoot jabs against me (I fear those guys jabs very much). I even managed to pull off a tan sao parry/straight punch to the face move!

    I used the thai front kick I learned, with indifferent results (i.e. he could have just ignored it). Mostly I had to rely on my wing chun - my kicks suck really bad, and that thai kick, IMO, is actually much more efficient than the few front kicks my wc instructor taught me.

    Conclusion: All in all, I think I did it quite nicely. The MT guy was certainly going very easy on me, I have no doubt about that (give me a break, the guy is a monster), but I think my wing chun training paid itself off. I think I will be able to use most of what I learned in wing chun during my thai sparring, even with those heavy gloves.

    I certainly think my MT training helped a lot, specially regarding physical conditioning, and I think it has great potential for helping me in my game, specially regarding kicks (my kicks always sucked, but my MT coach seems intent on improving them). But technically I am still much more of a wing chun man, of course - one month of training won´t do any miracles.

    All in all, I am enjoying crosstraining a lot. Both styles seemed to me to be perfectly compatible, and I think the thai kicks and physical conditioning (not only cardio, but pain resistance as well - shin and forearm conditioning, other kinds of conditioning my coach mentioned) are certainly reason enough to keep doing MT.

    OK guys, feel free to ask any questions.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  2. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 9:52pm

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     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you gonna be single soon?
    Ain't it a bitch it do **** with boxing gloves if you've never used them before?


    Well.....at my old WC place. I trained kicks a lot, therefore I got good at them.
    I have a massive stomp kick and my own version of the toe kick.
    Gotta love the low roundhouse kick though...
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  3. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 9:53pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good read, I'm glad you found your WC to be of use. As you gain skill in MT you can work on combining the two together and making your own hybrid style, instead of forcing yourself to chose one or the other.

    I just attended a WC seminar last Saturday, and I found the art very complementry to my own. I think WC could add good stuff to a lot of styles. I'm sure it is the same for starting in WC and adding stuff to it.
  4. albert is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 9:57pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When on the inside, be careful about uppercuts and hooks. Some people love getting inside and going to work on your face. WC apparently helps you in this regard because of its in-fighting emphasis. But just be aware of that. You might as well distance yourself a bit anyway to practice your kicks. Kicking pads and bags is one thing, you really know if your kicks are working if you land them consistently on people during sparring.

    Also, with people more experienced than you, if they're not troglodytes they will know to go easy on you. This guys seems like one of those people. Be aggressive - because if you let them attack first a lot chances are they will get you every time...and in your case especially if they start kicking you, and doing kick/punch combinations (have you learned the 4-count yet? That's the kick, cross, hook, kick , or kick, hook, cross, kick depending on if it's left or right side). There's my 2 cents. Hopefully you will become a MT convert!!!11
  5. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 10:01pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Punisher
    As you gain skill in MT you can work on combining the two together and making your own hybrid style, instead of forcing yourself to chose one or the other.
    That's precisely what I want to do. For instance, my sifu does not put much emphasis on kicks, so I pratice lots of MT kicks, which are great. And I also think that WC has much to add to many styles.

    Are you gonna be single soon?
    What do you mean by that, PizDof? I am not spending less time with my lady because of my MA training, I assure you, and I can still work and study without a problem.

    And yes, boxing gloves suck when you are not used to them. They also stink after they have been used by another guy. Urgh.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  6. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 10:08pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by albert
    When on the inside, be careful about uppercuts and hooks. Some people love getting inside and going to work on your face.
    How do you think my ear got red? Thanks for the advice anyway. I actually used a thai knee strike when the guy got too close (and it WOULD have landed, if I wanted to get killed by an angry MT monster), but mostly centerline defense w/ tan sao worked pretty well.

    Hopefully you will become a MT convert!!!
    Man, I already am a MT convert! MT is great, no doubt about that. But I do love the wing chun style of fighting - closed, concentrated, focused, and very, very direct.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  7. Ippatsu182 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 10:11pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was a good read WingChun Lawyer. I hope you continue to enjoy muay Thai.
  8. Darting Fingers is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 10:39pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good read WCL, just curious are you saying that in the 20mnths of wc you haven't done much kicking at all?
    Punisher good to see some positive feedback from non-wing chunners on this site.
    "Pussyhole"
  9. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2004 10:48pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Darting Fingers
    Good read WCL, just curious are you saying that in the 20mnths of wc you haven't done much kicking at all?
    Nope. Sad but true, we really haven't done much kicking at my wc class. I think sifu is saving that for chum kiu, and none of us is actually on that level.

    My sifu actually does teach stuff from other levels other than our current ones, but he really taught us very little about kicks, for some reason or another. We just did about three or four kicks-only classes (kicks in the air, kicking pads, etc): those were good, but we really didn't practice enough kicking overall.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  10. Prone is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/10/2004 12:41am


     Style: BJJ / Kyokushinkai Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm, sounds funny that you don't do kicking. Usually that's a basic thing: how to front kick and roundhouse...it's part of the first programs in WT. In the Chum Kiu, the kicks are completely different, except for the normal front kick.

    Anyway: good read, thanks for sharing your experiences. I would've guessed that you are better in the infight with WC than the MT guy. I train with MT ppl and they have stopped to go into the clinch with me and try to keep me away :D

    Keep up the good work and please write a follow-up to this article when you have time...
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