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  1. dustymars is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2011 2:20pm


     Style: Judo

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I understand what you are saying, Dusty. After a while, you don't think about what your are doing very much. I do it mostly like Okano now, although of course not as well.

    Ben
    Funny watching him in that video. In 1962 Isao and I would randori some while he would visit Okinawa and my love for ashiwaza may have been from him. He went on for big time success, but then we were just Judoka friends. While I had already left the "Rock" a freind, Dean Tower, sent me a photo of the two of them working out at Kadena AFB, Oki in 1966. We were young!

  2. dustymars is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2011 4:34pm


     Style: Judo

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yuk, it shows how fragile one’s memory is after nearly five decades! Isao was in high school in 1962 and we worked out at a dojo in Tokyo, but I forget which one. He was very well known Judo competitor even at that age and would later visit Okinawa as a world champ. Anyway, when I thought of Dean some of my memory cells mixed me up with him! We GI's would mix it up with high school Judoka now and then, they were among the toughest in the world!

    I missed being with Dean but by a few months after leaving Okinawa but got together with him when our Kittyhawk Judo Club would go over to Columbus, Ohio where he was later on. So, a major topic of conversation was Isao and how he surprised us by his 1964 gold and world's gold; he must have been rich with all the gold :) We wondered where we got off the band wagon!
    Last edited by dustymars; 1/21/2011 4:48pm at .
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2011 5:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dustymars View Post
    Yuk, it shows how fragile ones memory is after nearly five decades! Isao was in high school in 1962 and we worked out at a dojo in Tokyo, but I forget which one. He was very well known Judo competitor even at that age and would later visit Okinawa as a world champ. Anyway, when I thought of Dean some of my memory cells mixed me up with him! We GI's would mix it up with high school Judoka now and then, they were among the toughest in the world!

    I missed being with Dean but by a few months after leaving Okinawa but got together with him when our Kittyhawk Judo Club would go over to Columbus, Ohio where he was later on. So, a major topic of conversation was Isao and how he surprised us by his 1964 gold and world's gold; he must have been rich with all the gold :) We wondered where we got off the band wagon!
    Nice story!

    Interesting you said earlier that this is how you learn Okuri ashi barai, missed it earlier. I wonder if the Okano method is more common in Japan where as the kata version is more common in the West.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2011 5:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I can be either controlling or patronizing or both, which do you prefer?

    Please don't rage quit!

    Ben
  5. dustymars is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/21/2011 6:16pm


     Style: Judo

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okuri Ashi is one of those misunderstood throws that comes from watching the old kata or teaching version of it. Notice that Isao does not step in widely; he comes in a circular manner, his hips work in unison to add impetus to his lifting hand movements; unlike that of De Ashi, where you pull uke downward. Why we taught it the dumb sliding sideways manner, like in kata, is beyond me. Maybe it was because we, the returning yudansha from Japan, had no business teaching Judo in the first place. But, in those days we were it!

    I learned Okuri ashi barai working with our teenage girls in the club because they tended to jump around a lot and set themselves up for that throw. Notice too Isao uses his entire body and falls down once after execution, typical of a well executed throw in randori. Yes, the way he demonstrates it in the video is the most common method I remember doing, at least back then.

    Years ago after I had not put on a Judogi in a decade I was visiting a friend and went to his dojo. He insisted I suit up and some young brown belt wanted to work with me; of course, he wanted to beat up on an old black belt guy for his buddies to see. With my bad knees and gut hanging out of the gi, it was hard to catch this ultra fast younger dude with anything and he became frustrated after not being able to even enter a throw on me. I watched him flit around and saw that he would lay over his balance from one foot to the next as he tugged at me; a prefect setup for Okuri Ashi, so after a while I hit him with it several times and down he went.

    Wow, something one never forgets, and that throw is one we never do forget because it is close to the quickest way to put a person on his or her back and encompasses all the techniques required in Judo throwing .
    Last edited by dustymars; 1/21/2011 6:23pm at .
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/21/2011 6:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dustymars View Post
    Okuri Ashi is one of those misunderstood throws that comes from watching the old kata or teaching version of it. Notice that Isao does not step in widely; he comes in a circular manner, his hips work in unison to add impetus to his lifting hand movements; unlike that of De Ashi, where you pull uke downward.
    Very good point. I didn't really go much into the technical details of the physical throwing action itself, because I was trying to get a discussion going more about training methodology than anything else. But the distinction and points you raise are really important for the actual technique.

    If its one of your tokuiwaza and you have some technical insights don't hesitate to add them though!

    Quote Originally Posted by dustymars View Post
    Wow, something one never forgets, and that throw is one we never do forget because it is close to the quickest way to put a person on his or her back and encompasses all the techniques required in Judo throwing .
    I've only ever managed a few Okuri ashi barai mostly on girls and always then from the single step like in Okano's, obviously nowhere near as well. Once managed to get a Sasae tsurikomi ashi to Okuri ashi barai combination on a white belt and despite it being a white belt I was super satisfied with it, because he really flew.

    My coach gives me airtime with Okuri ashi barai a couple of times a session so its a throw I'd love to be good at.
    Last edited by judoka_uk; 1/21/2011 6:36pm at .
  7. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2011 4:30am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My friend, you must be some kind of Judo psychic. My club
    actually did and drilled the Okuri in the entire
    class time yesterday.

    This was my introduction to the technique, and yes, it was presented in the side skipping manner of movement.

    From what the coaches told us, it was imperative that we caught the uke in mid air, and that as such, timing was imperative.

    In fact, the coach had us practice just the ashi
    sabaki for the half of the actual technique time.

    I must say, however, that an uke might accumulate some serious "frequent flier" points because of this one.
  8. dustymars is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2011 6:36am


     Style: Judo

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, one must learn the movements on white belts but the true test is randori with a larger, older person and apply it. A lot of my teaching was to kids and ashiwaza is the order of the day with them. They learn from watching sensei. When as a new instructor I would yell and bore them with talk, until I learned how to instruct; and save my voice.

    In the old days we always did uchikomi in ashiwaza back and forth. Uke and tori would step into Okuri ashi, then step out and they would swap places. Say, do that several times and then execute the throw. They both would go into circular taisubaki and so on until randori mode. Wish I could find a video of that. Videos of uchikomi would be very good, but far in between. Mostly ippons in shai; while nice it is not very instructional.

    Sasae and Okuri are entirely different techniques, except the uplifting hands. Also, one may enter De ashi Harai the same as Okuri ashi but the hands are much different.
    Last edited by dustymars; 1/22/2011 6:41am at .
  9. dustymars is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/22/2011 10:29am


     Style: Judo

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don’t think that pulling down with Deashi is good; one must counter act the pull with lift (remember the steering wheel hand techniques). Never, ever push or pull uke down, that makes uke heavy and you light – not good kuzushi. Our sensei taught that first hand and griping techniques even before really getting into throwing. Kotani sensei would let some huge guy try to break his balance and lift him, but the more they tried the more they dug themselves into the tatami. The lifting hands and short circular step in with Okuri ashi barai is the secret.

    The age thing cauught up with me and besides not practicing makes for missing memory.
  10. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2011 5:29pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dusty, thanks for sharing your memories and experience with us younger guys. You got to lay hands on some legends of Judo for sure,and that experience is priceless.

    I almost exclusively do De Ashi Barai and Okuri Ashi Barai when Uke is moving backwards or in a circle now. Most guys always pull away, and can be caught action-reaction as they do so with either throw, depending on the angle.

    As you pointed out, the back and forth method of training is mostly what I use, either moving sideways,circle, or back and forth at different angles. Lots of ashi sabaki/tai sabaki tandoku renshuu as another poster mentioned as well.



    Ben
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