I restore the Balance
Posted On:4/14/2005 10:57pm
Style: I wear pants
Originally Posted by MrMcFu
Kungfoolss, what is your avatar?
You mean 'who' don't you?
Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
Posted On:4/14/2005 11:01pm
Originally Posted by Kengou
I think a lot of you guys are underestimating the effectiveness of techniques from the "internal" arts;
Hardly, seeing how most of these backward techniques just pushed the guy away and left them standing ready to start the fight all over again.
most of the stuff I saw there looked like it would work pretty well, based on my background.
That isn't really saying much if you admire that garbage...
Posted On:4/14/2005 11:21pm
It looks like the instructor at Flowing Combat is doing what I was talking about over in the Techniques section: taking internal arts and breaking them down into components to drill.
I've heard one guy here say Xingyi counters grappling, which is, of course, a lame thing to say. San Ti is designed to maintain a little extra space when somebody's coming to clinch, but it's not meant for something like a leg takedown. I've never heard t3h anti-grapple where I actually train.
I'd say that the site needs clips of the end result *along* with the training. Follow a clip of the drill with a clip of the technique used against living resistance. I seem to recall a clip of Xingi being practiced this way a while back, and it was pretty impressive.
Posted On:4/14/2005 11:54pm
Style: MMA, Tkd
What an awesome demo. :laughing1
Posted On:4/15/2005 6:47am
Style: Wing Chun,Jujitsu
Like other internal styles(despite popular opinion) it could work but it will take a lot of training and I notice a lack of strikes in the demo.
Posted On:4/15/2005 6:49am
Style: TKD; BJJ
A lack of strikes? He barely did anything but strikes.
Posted On:4/15/2005 10:47am
Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo
Originally Posted by Rashomon
Yeah, but these were demo vids - just to show the techniques and principles. When you learn arm bars, you don't initially learn them against resistance. That comes later. I also suspect that, when asked to show a novice a submission, they don't show it while rolling with the guy. They probably go, "ok. This is what it looks like" and slap it on. Resistance will come later, but not when you are demonstrating the technique. Does that mean that the sub you just showed sucks because your opponent didn't resist it? No.
Gary said his school includes resistant training and sparring. I definitely think that showing some good sparring - *using those techniques* - would have helped greatly. Something like "This is my tech. This is my tech in action." That would have been good. Also, I specified "using those techniques", because I have seen too many sparring vids of "fancy styles" that just look like boxing when the **** hits the fan. Might as well just train boxing, in that case.
Fine, stylisticly its some kind of tai chi ish thing I'm not familiar with and they're doing technique demos.
I'm not critising them for doing that. I'm saying that he's standing toe-to-toe with someone and trying to knock their punches out the air.
Its just not going to work. Now you take that movement and you do exactly the same thing, but with your guard in tight protecting your face.
With the same movement you shift your weight, turn your body to slip the punch and counter hit.
Its the same technique, its just the details make it more likely to work.
At my tai chi class one of our san shou fighters took up amature boxing, he says that they punch the same way we do only its (obviously) a much more important part of their training regime.
Despite my teacher never having learnt any other martial arts, I am obviously not learning th3 r34l T41 (|-|1. :sleepy3:
Originally Posted by Stickx
It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
Posted On:4/17/2005 9:52pm
Whats up again guys? Saw this thread was brought back up, and a legitimate point was raised Id like to address.
RE"The fundemental problem I had with his stuff is the wrong person was wearing the helmet."
I agree with your point, let me add though the purpose of that was two fold, 1;show, 1:Too show some follow-though on the strike so It doesnt look like Im just waving my hands through the air with no power. In the future I will be wearing the gear (I have a red man suit now and can use just the head peice) I will also show my students wearing the gear and using the methods, to show I can actually teach people to fight.
In class I emphasize people using their methods under pressure, students are required to wear headgear/mouthpiece, and deal with full force and full speed attacks with everything they learn. (For example I have a scenario where both people have headgear on and stand in hitting range. I turn off the lights and have everyone yelling, and allow movement in the fighting area. Then the lights come on instantly and that is the cue for the designated attacker to throw whatever full force/full speed attack they want. Not only does the person have to stop the attack from knocking the crap out of them, they have to it under suprise.) We have many scenarios that get nastier, this is just an example. I often do this myself as everyone instructor or not needs to keep fresh. As I add more demos to the site this footage/instruction will be included. Im working on another volume with some Scenario training included, so ill have some footage for it. I havent done much work with the site the past few months. I do have a full time job in the Military, and teach class three times a week, so the site is really a hobby.
"But the details didn't look like they'd let it work. I don't see how you can slip a flurry of punches with your hands that far away from you."
A few methods in the demo where showing "closing methods", which are applied to someone just out of punching range who puts their hands up to attack/shove/whatever. Therefore you will see me sweeping the hands aside and moving in to attack, this is a proactive method and I have successfully applied it to not only Good boxers, JKD instructors, but on the street with success. I dont remeber doing a demo slipping a flurry of punches from a distance? Perhaps its the closing methods you were seeing?
"All his movements looked too artificial and stylised to work,"
Only enough movement is included to get the job done, no extraneous movements are included, you may not be used to seeing those type of mechanics, but they are quick, fluid and powerfull. It is a demo afterall, not even a good simulation or scenario, for these demo clips I literally took segments of the instruction and cut/past short portions, these were not intended as a live/realtime demo, only a sample.
"and I dont see how thats going to go away unless the attacker comes in and realy tries to nail him(at least once in a while"
As I said we routinley train this way(people trying to nail me), we also work against all kinds of attacks, jabs included, and we have many things that work quite well.
"I was about to say, you wouldn't last 30 seconds against a decent grappler."
Ive trained with Grapplers, i know I could manage to last a little longer than that.
RE"I'm embarrased to say I bought one of his DVDs, only because he's 2 hours away from me in Oklahoma City. It's pretty gay."
You should be embarrased, there is enough free material on the website (free online lesson/demo segments) to see if you will like the material on the DVD before you consider purchasing. I have sold hundreds of DVDs and yours is the first complaint ive come accross. Perhaps you could email me with some constructive critisim, your training background, what methods you learned/attempted from myDVD, and how long you learned/practiced. Then I might consider refunding your money. I am not in this for the money, Id rather people be happy with their training than make a quick buck. Since your so close by I will offer you a free lesson in person, im sure I can convince you I have something to teach you then. First you should attempt to learn the basic mechanics from the first volume first, or at least get some clue. You have to try it before you knock it, and those mechanics are not learned overnight, in fact for many people it takes years to get better body alignment/kinetic linking. Good students in person can get them down in a year or so, but the mechanics dont have to be perfect for the methods to work in the street.
"I'm saying that he's standing toe-to-toe with someone and trying to knock their punches out the air."
Again I think your refering to the closing method, perhaps you could tell me what demo your refering too so I could offer proper expanation, and keep your critique in mind next time a film something?
"Its just not going to work.
Now you take that movement and you do exactly the same thing, but with your guard in tight protecting your face."
Thats just a false statement, everything I teach I test first, against full speed and power attacks from different types of people. Your saying for it to work you must have your hands close to your face, this may be easier to learn, and more common training. But by holding your arms at 90 degrees or less you turn your arms into a lever (fulcrum at the elbow), when contact is made your opponent has the mechanical advantage. It takes a bit more training, and specific traning to learn to fight this way (guard not in tight) and connect the body for fluid and powerfull motions, but I assure you it does work. You obviously just dont have experience with this method, so from looking at it I can see why you may think it wouldnt work, it would be much easier to show you in person. Im not implying you cant fight or are not fluid and powerfull, but if you were to learn the way I do things in addition to your own, im sure you could improve on your fighting ability. I useually start this conversation with, ok....try to hit me then. After I provide the above explaination... Im more of a show first, tell later kind of guy, the internet isnt very convienent for that!
Im glad to see with exception to the above "gay" comment from our other Okie in Tulsa ;people on this thread seem decent and are attempting to be somewhat objective. This is contrary to everything ive heard about Bullshido people, so keep it up, I may just have to post here on other topics not regarding my own material.
Re"I say well done, Gary"
Thanks for the kind words Kengou, im glad a few people here have some referece to compare my material too.
Last edited by Gary; 4/17/2005 10:34pm at .
Reason: spelling/more info
Posted On:4/18/2005 12:57am
Originally Posted by Gary
Ive trained with Grapplers, i know I could manage to last a little longer than that.
What's the point then?
You should be embarrased, there is enough free material on the website (free online lesson/demo segments) to see if you will like the material on the DVD before you consider purchasing. I have sold hundreds of DVDs and yours is the first complaint ive come accross.
Hundreds? Oh, boy....
I am not in this for the money,
Then why sell it in the first place? Give away hundreds of DVDs instead of forcing folks to buy the material.
WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.
Posted On:4/18/2005 1:09am
Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu
how did you know the thread was ressurected again? do you routinely check bullshido?
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