How authentic are these certificates

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 1/15/2011 10:55am

Originally Posted by Rock Ape

Thank you guys keep that stuff coming in, I have plans for this and need as much information as possible.

Also as far as I'm aware no one is 'licenced', if such a term is applicable, to issue Kodokan rank certificates replacements or otherwise apart from the Kodokan.

Though I imagine that if you wanted to find out 100% you would have to e-mail the Kodokan's international department who are notoriously slow in replying.

Originally Posted by danniboi07

Check the arrow I added for a nice photo-edit lol.

LOL! Nice spot. I've blown it up a bit:

**Gezere** · Posted On: 1/15/2011 12:21pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

The first one is an obvious forgery. However their other one:

An imitation Kodokan certificate

Is quite close to an original, if you compare it to an original such as Mr. Ohlenkamp's, which they appear to have used as a basis for the copy

The second column of text, from the left, is different to Ohlenkamp's. However, as I have no Japanese I don't know if that's a date column or what.

Also its interesting for Risei Kano to have signed the certificate in 1985 when Yukimitsu Kano was Kodokan kancho in 1985, Risei Kano having stepped down in 1980. I believe this is probably because they just copied the Ohlenkamp certificate and didn't check their dates.

They've also not been able to replicate the english font properly, in particular note how on Ohlenkamp's the 'first' is markedly different than the accompanying text, yet on the imitation ones its the same font.

They took out Neil's name in KATAKANA and left the date blank (second line from the left) from the first and copied pretty much everything else.

**GirlJock** · Posted On: 1/16/2011 6:12pm

These are two certificates that I have from my service time. The Army one has a different year on the bottom, but other than that it looks terrific. I have to wonder who's signatures they put on the documents. I am very tempted to order the AF one and see what it comes back like. I emailed the guy and he said it is a one day turnaround and he can match the font from the time period. I know mine were done on a typewriter, lol, but I suppose they are using computer nowadays.

I see they have an AF basic training certificate on the site. I never got one of those, but maybe they only started in the 90s.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/25/2011 4:02pm

Bump.. for my intention to complete this project.

**Novarg** · Posted On: 9/28/2011 5:51pm

4th one(Kyokushin) is a fake.
Ok, I can believe that they used Sosai Oyamas' signature, but that they used term Tezuka Group 5 years before it appeared?

http://www.ektg.be/site/index.php?op...id=52&Itemid=2
quote:
"Other groups include the "Tezuka" IKO Group ... which split out in 2000"

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/28/2011 5:54pm

Thanks for the info mate

Oh and welcome to Bullshido. It's customary (and a good idea) for you to post an introduction into the Noobietown forum. I'd suggest that might be your next step.

**Novarg** · Posted On: 9/28/2011 6:27pm

thanks, I'll check out the Noobietown ;)

**r12477** · Posted On: 10/12/2011 8:23am

I am not sure if it helps, but this certificate appears to include the name "Brandon Gordon" in Katakana (I think - It has been 15+ years since I have actively practiced Japanese)

**jzx** · Posted On: 1/15/2012 5:08am

Originally Posted by Gezere

It still may be legit.
That one could actually be one of the ready made certs for the particular group. There was basically a template that dojo owners could use. The Reg # can be used to see if it is truly legit.

I don't think so. We take our black belt certs pretty seriously (you would too after an hour of balls to the wall exercise followed by a 15 man full contact session), and I know I wouldn't accept a posthumously signed certificate.

**sambosteve** · Posted On: 1/16/2012 12:35pm

I am not photo expert, but those certs look "direct to computer from photoshop" There does not seem to be any indication that they are actualy paper scans...like shadows, creases, fading ink, stains, etc. They all seem so perfect.