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  1. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 8:03am

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     Style: 柔術

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    I looked to see if this was posted and found nothing. I came across the is article about the threat of MMA to LEOs and methods to deal with it. I think its was pretty good and a honest assessment of a typical LEOs ability to deal with a combat athlete.

    http://www.lawofficer.com/article/tr...d-martial-arts
    Great article!

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung View Post
    Gezere and LEOs, how does this article stack up, in your considered opinion?
    The writer in the first article ran into a situation where he ended up in a confrontation with a trained MMA fighter that out matched him causing him to shape his opinion.

    The biggest difference I see in the second article is that the writer does not have this experience. I am sure the second author has gotten into it before, but not with a trained fighter that out matched him. Therefore, while the first article shows experience, the second article grasps to theory.

    For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by MMA is Not the Biggest Threat
    I have seen grapplers and wrestlers at in-service training do flawless takedowns only to shoot for a submission hold instead of going into a handcuffing position where they could assess the situation and look out for multiple attackers. They go for the grappling hold over and over, even after being corrected. Their unconscious competence in martial sport has set them up for disaster.
    Except in the first article, he points out multiple times that every time he went for a resisting hold in order to cuff the fighter, the fighter would escape and come back at him.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMA is Not the Biggest Threat
    The only time I went to the ground was when I took someone there myself with a takedown or strike
    This only shows that he doesn't have experience fighting people that are better than him. The author in the first article end up in a situation where he was the less trained fighter, the second author seems never to of had that experience.
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 8:27am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, second article seems to be not so much "head in the sand" as it is a case of people who have huge but delicate egos, rationalizing decisions they know are bad via hindsight rather than owning up to it.

    It's the same reason why people who buy a shitty, off-brand Korean computer monitor, rate it 5 stars in the reviews section on the site from which they purchased it, while everyone else is giving it one or two. When your credibility is deeply intertwined with your ego, and that ego is fragile, you're going to do mental acrobatics when it starts becoming apparent that you've been wrong.

    And since MMA sparring has been demonstrated time and again as a superior training method, people who have invested a lot of time in other training methods that fit this "profile", where their egos depend on their expertise, would rather rationalize than adapt.

    As far as coming up with a term better term than "TMA", I agree; we should be discussing that too. I've always said that "real Traditional Martial Artists used to beat the hell out of each other" and that doing nothing but kata and such is more a product of the commercialization of the martial arts than anything traditional.
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 10:20am

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with some of the stuff the second article was saying. Mostly about training with gear on, and about using proper tactics. It is true that you fight how you train. However, if you are training with a duty belt on ALL the time, it is going to be uncomfortable as hell! So wear it in sparring or regularly but not all the time. Wear is enought to know how it will change the way you do stuff, but you don't need a duty belt on when hitting the bag!

    The impression I got about the second author is that he is a typical DT instructor that thinks he knows everything. I've met many. He teaches but he doesn't spar. He talks about stories from 10 years ago, but hasn't actually done anything but train for years. I had a couple DT instructors like him before. You won't change his mind, because the only way to do it, would be to spar with him and show him. But he won't get into the mix. I could tell tons of stories about this same type of ignorance.

    The first article was good. I read it about 6 months ago, I beleive. It is good to bring up those issues. It is also good to get officers in the gym and training. Nothing wrong with that. Too many officers learn how to do some strikes in training(which are good) but then they never practice when they get out. That is the main issue.

    I think it is fine for people to learn a few high percentage techniques and then practice them regularly. Get good at them and keep them fresh. If you want to learn more, go learn more. Just don't learn less. And don't learn them and only practice them once a year at annual training!
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  4. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 10:39am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the biggest threat to most LEOs I've see around my town is having to run 100 feet at one stretch. The difference between the LEOs that train with us, and the ones I see around town is just insane. There is a huge percentage of cops in my town that are seriously obese. The guys that train don't just have an advantage based on knowledge, they have one based on superior fitness.
  5. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 2:44pm

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    As far as coming up with a term better term than "TMA", I agree; we should be discussing that too. I've always said that "real Traditional Martial Artists used to beat the hell out of each other" and that doing nothing but kata and such is more a product of the commercialization of the martial arts than anything traditional.
    I've been working on the concept of 'martial value' - something I sketched out at the last 'Martial Arts and Philosophy' conference.

    It acknowledges all kinds of other values common to the martial arts - e.g. historical, economic, aesthetic - but also allows us to discriminate between arts that train 'alive' and arts that don't.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  6. Kovacs is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 6:07pm


     Style: Kettles (MA hiatus).

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Off topic so I'll be quick but how about if we replace TMA with IMA, Ineffective Martial Arts? That removes any notion that an art is poor just becouse it's 'old' and can still be applied to newer styles that are weak.
  7. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 6:18pm

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just refer to it as LaRPing.
  8. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 11:23pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was wondering if anyone who is LEO: Does their academy teach anything similar to the modern army combatives, where there is MMA style sparring? Also in either the MAC course or the Police defensive tactics does it address going from hand to hand fighting to you using a weapon, ie ASP, OC spray or gun?
  9. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2011 11:36pm

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    This only shows that he doesn't have experience fighting people that are better than him. The author in the first article end up in a situation where he was the less trained fighter, the second author seems never to of had that experience.
    Yes, exactly my point on Judo: everything I learned as a black belt (admittedly a crappy one) was useless. Good for me
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  10. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/14/2011 1:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
    Off topic so I'll be quick but how about if we replace TMA with IMA, Ineffective Martial Arts? That removes any notion that an art is poor just becouse it's 'old' and can still be applied to newer styles that are weak.
    IMA is already a common abbreviation for "internal martial arts".

    Using that in your posts, I expect you'll wind up with quite a few angry replies from confused tai chi/bagua/hsing-i players.
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