Bodyweights and failure

**IsThisRight?** · Posted On: 12/13/2010 5:39pm

Are there any particular aspects of the movement that I should be particulary careful about to prevent injury? I reckon i'll do a few sets and see how it goes, it does seem that most people who have done them get great benefits.

What do you think about the trainforstrength workouts? I've seen you reccomend them a few times on this forum, but im not sure how the pros/cons really compare to other bodyweight routines, i'm pretty uneducated about this kind of stuff.

Thanks for your help man.

**Emevas** · Posted On: 12/13/2010 5:50pm

TFS is decent if you don't have access to equipment, but that should be a limited window. Equipment will give you way better options for programming and gains.

I would just go easy on the hindu squats to start. Don't push yourself too hard.

**fightclubfreak7** · Posted On: 12/14/2010 9:50pm

While we're on the subject, can someone tell me what hindu squats are. I just looked up a couple videos but they had completely conflicting information. One instructed the user to lift the heels off the ground as you get lower the other said to make sure your heels never leave the ground. With weighted squats I have always kept my heels on the floor and attempted to (sit back) but I'm not familiar with hindu squats. Can they be done weighted or are they just a bodyweight exercise?

**IsThisRight?** · Posted On: 12/15/2010 7:34am

The way I do them I go on forward on the balls of my feet as I come down and sit back on to the whole foot as I go up, so its kind of like a continuous circular motion. I'm not sure if this is best form or not, but I did a load of them yesterday and my legs feel nicely sore today and my knees aren't complaining. But I guess only time will tell.

As for doing them weighted i'm no expert but I would assume that there not good for doing with weights due to having to much non linear movement. I'm sure someone like emevas will be able to give you a better answer and reason that me though.

**LI GUY 1** · Posted On: 12/15/2010 10:18am

What I got from the whole "knees don't go past your toes" thing is that people say it and its supposed to help you sit back on your heels, moving your hips in the squat.

Putting the weight on the balls of your feet under bar squats puts more stress on the knee. As opposed to sitting back and on the heels using your hips to move the weight.

Your knees to move a bit though back and forth over your toes, shouldn,t be a problem, long as your sitting on your heels I think.

This is for weighted squats btw, which are different then body weight only hindu squats.

**chi-conspiricy** · Posted On: 12/15/2010 1:12pm

Originally Posted by Jacked Frost

Think of how many olympic lifters squat with their knees over their toes. And when you do a lunge, where is your back knee in relation to your toes? WAAAAY over.

It's an old fitness myth. The real goal of it was to teach lifters to initated a movement with their hips first, rather than their knees, but it mutated into it's current retardation of "knees NEVER go over toes"

Like I said, it was literally the same symptoms and causes that you listed. No capo, but lots of running with weights and ****. Now I can squat well over 450 raw.

You get your knees stronger by training them, not neglecting them.

In fact, Olympic lifters often do this 5-6 days a week, twice a day. There was even a study showing that the vast majority of injuries, 70% or so I believe, were upper body, especially with shoulders. People saying that knees drifting past the toes is unacceptable should be ignored just like people who say squatting deep is bad.

**Dr._Tzun_Tzu** · Posted On: 12/19/2010 4:45am

Squat deep, do it as a stretch, it should be part of your free range of motion.

For Bodyweight exercise it is generally recommended to not go to failure. The power of BW exercise is in the connective tissues, core strength, and balance, and most important, the CNS. So going to failure is not going to improve you, and it may in fact weaken you. Going to failure is something done to gain muscle mass and is done with a nutrition and training program, with days off for that muscle group.BW exercises are generally done everyday or more then once a day. BW exercise often results in lower body mass, but strengths you none the less for the weighted lifts.

As was mentioned, Pavel and RKC hardstyle people do not go to failure for any exercise that I know of, weighted or not.

**DuckofDeath** · Posted On: 12/22/2010 2:53am

Originally Posted by Jacked Frost

Think of how many olympic lifters squat with their knees over their toes.

Here's an exception:

**Emevas** · Posted On: 12/22/2010 7:10am

Originally Posted by DuckofDeath

Here's an exception:

I don't traditionally consider a snatch to be a squat.

**DuckofDeath** · Posted On: 12/22/2010 1:36pm

Originally Posted by Jacked Frost

I don't traditionally consider a snatch to be a squat.

Coming up from the bottom position of a snatch, though, is tantamount to the concentric phase of a squat, and olympic lifters actually do repetitive squats with the bar locked out overhead to simulate coming up from the bottom position of a snatch.

The point of the photo is that the girl is bombing out on her lift because she didn't keep her knees out over her toes. My post was a roundabout validation of the point you were making.