Thread: Chen Pan Ling Tai Chi anyone?
12/11/2010 9:24am, #1
Chen Pan Ling Tai Chi anyone?
I practice Chen Pan Ling Tai Chi, oh, every day. Before I started training in CPL I did Yang style. I've done a little bit of Chen, but not enough to know anything about it. I haven't met too many people who train in CPL so I was wondering if anyone here has trained in it and would like to discuss a few things. I also would like some opinions about things from people who train in other styles of Tai Chi.
For anyone who is not familiar with CPL Tai Chi, here is a decent article about where it came from:
I have the English version of Chen Pan Ling's text book as well.
A couple of things I like about CPL compared to what I did in the past is that it has a more martial feel to it. The punches feel like punches, the kicks feel like kicks, and the grappling holds are directly identifiable. When I did Tai Chi before, it mostly just felt like dancing. I had to get very in depth in order to interpret martial value from it.
CPL also has elements of Xingyi and Bagua in it.
Here is my first question. My main one is dealing with the single whip. When I did the single whip before the right hand was brought up in a strait line with the arm slightly bent and the shoulder being the pivot point. As if the single whip was like back handing someone and then the left hand moved in front of the face as the body turns and then you end up in the single whip.
In CPL I have be taught that the right hand when forming the whip doesn't pivot at the shoulder, it pivots at the elbow. So the hand comes in towards the body first, then up the centerline, then forms and arc crossing in front of the face and then continues the arc until it forms the hook out to the side.
I found a video that shows both ways. At the beginning, he shows the way I was taught originally. When he starts to show the application, it looks more like the way I have been learning it now. At 2:16 this is the movement I do now, but only with the arms extended not pulled in.
YouTube - Basic Tai Chi Chuan Moves : The Single Whip Move in Tai Chi
In Chen Pan Ling's text book he describes it like this: "Draw and arc inward with your right arm, using right elbow as axis, and passing hand in front of face. Lift right arm to form hook palm."
When I learned the Single Whip in Chen Style, it is totally different. So, what do you see as benefits in doing it differently? Does the alternate way of doing it include different applications? Were you taught it as a strike or hook?
Thanks for your time.
12/15/2010 4:57pm, #2
Yes to both hook(s) and strike(s).
Sometimes forms drift when martial utility isn't at the forefront. Sometimes you're taught one way, as sort of a gross practice, and then are shown another when you get good at the first, less fine motion. One problem with a lot of teachers is that they are too interested in visual aesthetics. One problem with a lot of students is that they hop from school to school and style to style and only learn the gross movements of a form and wonder why the same posture is so different in other schools.
12/15/2010 5:36pm, #3
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I learned single whip in Yang style. In addition to using the hook to hook things, the way I learned the other hand moves differently than the video showed. First the body turns and the palm rotates from inward to outward, then the body moves forward as one piece. In this way, the forward hand is parrying an attack while turning, then attacking with the same hand (either as a palm strike or as a control on the inside of their elbow).
12/16/2010 4:10pm, #4
Yeah, the origional way I was taught was not for martial utility. The current style is taught almost completely for the martial aspect. We do yang style push hands but this hook hasn't been included in that. This was the only thing that I learned that was drastically different from yang style.
There are chen elements and bagua elements in the form, so those are obviously going to be different. I normally just keep my mouth closed and do what I'm told, but I hate to be lead around blindly. It is expected to some degree but it is harder to make since out of some of the Tai Chi stuff, then say the kickboxing and submissions that I do.
12/16/2010 4:57pm, #5
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12/16/2010 6:41pm, #6
Something for the OP to contemplate. What role might the elbow in the "chopping" hand have, especially if you don't perform the whip by starting with that arm at your chest, but lower?
As you think about that elbow rising, think about how it acts differently in the "wide" and "narrow" versions in that video.
12/17/2010 2:12pm, #7
Very interesting. In the way I am doing it now, the elbow is pretty much completely taken out of the possibilities of use. However, if I did it the old way(yang style) then it would be a pretty good elbow strike. Especially if you started the hand lower and raiesed the elbow first. I'm going to explore this a little in my training.
12/17/2010 3:20pm, #8
And people say I'm a gimmick account!
12/20/2010 7:57am, #9
www.palmchange.com before he moved to Paris. Ed travelled to Taiwan and learned Ba Gua under Luo De Xui. Ed also taught Cheng Man Ching Tai Chi but in addition Chen Pan Ling. I only trained in Ba Gua for a relatively short period though it remains a long term interest.
Palmchange has carried on under Nick Cumber and Matt Biss (the latter also travelled to Taiwan for instruction under Luo). Their training nights clash with my Trad JJ.
Ed's new website might be of interest to you. BTW, he also trained as an amateur boxer at St Pancras (which formed an fortunate alliance with the Kronk). Just in case you think he can't fight...
Hope it helps.
12/20/2010 3:21pm, #10
Sheesh, that guy has trained in a few different things:
While Edward has specialised knowledge in the Chinese styles of Baguazhang,Taijiquan, and Xingyiquan he has also spent time training in or exchanging with practitioners of Aikido, Karate, Simbha Sansho, Pencak Silat, Pancrase, Savate, la Cane, JKD, Brasilian Jujutsu, boxing, Thai boxing, Capoeira and Karate.