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  1. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 12:05pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    However, I do think the vast majority of burglars would turn tail and run out of the house if they heard the sound of a shotgun being racked.
    Guys, racking the gun really sounds like grandstanding movie bullshit to me.

    I still fail to see a situation that wouldn't be better served by announcing your presence and intentions. You are the good guy in this situation, not sneaking around trying to assassinate someone.

    If you rack the gun:
    * They know you are armed
    * They know your position

    If you Yell
    * They know you are armed
    * They know your position
    * They know you are aware of their presence
    * They know police are on the way

    Madgrenade, we are talking about someone coming in your house when you are present - not a burglary when you are not home, keep up.
  2. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 12:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    Guys, racking the gun really sounds like grandstanding movie bullshit to me.

    I still fail to see a situation that wouldn't be better served by announcing your presence and intentions. You are the good guy in this situation, not sneaking around trying to assassinate someone.

    If you rack the gun:
    * They know you are armed
    * They know your position

    If you Yell
    * They know you are armed
    * They know your position
    * They know you are aware of their presence
    * They know police are on the way
    All sound arguments, but I still choose racking over yelling.

    Racking removes the possibility that you are lying about being armed. Anyone can yell "get out, I have a gun and police are on the way" but you can't really imitate the racking sound. It would be a good precursor to announcing you are armed and police are on the way, but I would rack first.

    It might be pretentious movie bullshit, but it also informs the person that you are ready to escalate should they choose to not deescalate.
  3. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 12:23pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In that case, how do they know you don't have an empty gun? If someone decides to see if I am lying, I don't know they're someone who just racking the slide would deter them - they're committed to take the risk and they will get a bullet.

    Also as Phrost mentioned earlier, being able to rack the gun requires carrying in condition 3; personally, I carry mine in condition 2.

    edit: meant c2 not c1, durr.
    Last edited by money; 12/08/2010 12:29pm at .
  4. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 12:31pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    In that case, how do they know you don't have an empty gun? If someone decides to see if I am lying, I don't know they're someone who just racking the slide would deter them - they're committed to take the risk and they will get a bullet.
    I would say the possibility of lying about possessing no firearm but stating you do is greater then possessing an a firearm but not having it loaded or access to ammo.

    Also as Phrost mentioned earlier, being able to rack the gun requires carrying in condition 3; personally, I carry mine in condition 2.
    I have to keep mine in Condition Three, so it would necessitate racking.
    Last edited by Snake Plissken; 12/08/2010 12:32pm at . Reason: edited to reflect Moneyman's edit
  5. wetware is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 12:51pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Madgrenade View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^ Typical American psycho. If a burglar breaks into your house he's looking to steal your **** and escaped unnoticed. He's not looking to shoot it out with the homeowner. Don't bother buying the gun. Just get the gun oil and liberally sprinkle it around the house. The fiend will smell it and look elsewhere.
    ^^^^^^^^^ Typical European appeasement bullshit.

    First: home invasion injury - Google Search

    Second: Where's the most valuable **** in most family dwellings? The master bedroom, in your wife or girlfriend's jewelry box. So if they're looking for maximum return then they are going to have to encounter you if you're there. They're looking to steal your **** right up until they aren't any more.

    Third: A home invasion is an inherently violent act. If the guy is armed then he's accepted the possibility that he may have to hurt or kill someone in order to steal their stuff. Now the way I see it is he's also implicitly accepted anything that happens in my house if he breaks in. He has, in essence, asked me to shoot him several times if that's what I choose to do.
    However, if you've chosen to hide in the corner and be a victim, that's your decision.
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 1:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post


    What are the odds I could get this in CA with out going to jail. If I am looking for a weapon for home defense cost isn't an issue I mean how much is the well being of my family and stuff wroth?
  7. wetware is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 1:46pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    What are the odds I could get this in CA with out going to jail. If I am looking for a weapon for home defense cost isn't an issue I mean how much is the well being of my family and stuff wroth?
    Probably damn close to zero. I mean... it has a pistol grip and is pretty scary looking, which is about all it takes in Cali.

    More seriously, it has a detachable magazine. That's a big no-no for shotguns in Cali. In combination the folding stock and pistol grip combo get it banned, too.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 2:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    Probably damn close to zero. I mean... it has a pistol grip and is pretty scary looking, which is about all it takes in Cali.

    More seriously, it has a detachable magazine. That's a big no-no for shotguns in Cali. In combination the folding stock and pistol grip combo get it banned, too.
    Yeah unfortanly you are correct I can get a CA legal Saiga but it is kind of pointless
    http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct774.aspx
    It could easily be modified to be the beast we see here but then one runs into all sorts of issues if they ever do have to use it.
  9. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2010 3:14pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madgrenade View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^ Typical American psycho. If a burglar breaks into your house he's looking to steal your **** and escaped unnoticed. He's not looking to shoot it out with the homeowner. Don't bother buying the gun. Just get the gun oil and liberally sprinkle it around the house. The fiend will smell it and look elsewhere.
    Typical English Naivete.

    If someone is "breaking into my house", I don't care what their "motivation" is, only that they are incapacitated before they can act out whatever criminal violation they had planned.

    If this kind of thinking confuses or offends you, then maybe you should avoid the "Armory".
    :copdance:
  10. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    What are the odds I could get this in CA with out going to jail. If I am looking for a weapon for home defense cost isn't an issue I mean how much is the well being of my family and stuff wroth?
    The Saiga 12 is easy to find in CA in it's "normal" configuration. (18" barrel, and Monte Carlo stock.)

    The 20 round drum however would be illegal in CA.

    Fortunately, Surefire makes a ten round mag for them bringing you right up to the limit!
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