Thread: Judo throws on both sides?
12/04/2010 12:50am, #1
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Judo throws on both sides?
I'm sorry if this reads as dumb but I just started doing judo along with looking up judo throws on the net and noticed from what I can tell that just about all judo throws are done on the left side of the thrower. Is it typical to train both sides or just focus on one side? And if so in a randori at higher levels does it feel unfamiliar to defend against a throw from the other side?
12/04/2010 12:58am, #2
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
Both sides, although i will say that normally we learn/spend a little more time on the right side first then learn the left side for whatever that is worth.
12/04/2010 2:10am, #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
- Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
You will learn and practice to do them on both sides. You will naturally have a stronger side but should always be able to do both.______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
12/04/2010 2:15am, #4
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Bonners Ferry, Idaho
- Kodokan Judo
It is good to practice both sides. You can also use for example a right hand sleeve and lapel grip and do throws to the left from that grip.
Most serious competitors will have a dominant side and strive to maintain their grip and posture for that side.
Serious competitors will practice against righties and lefties, and have strategies for dealing with both.
12/04/2010 6:22am, #5
Seriously OP, you're getting good advice, but the best thing you can do at your current stage of noobness is just go train.
I guarantee this will save you making/bumping anymore threads. As what you want to know will probably be taught to you within the first few weeks of judo, or your questions will be answered immediately if you ask your instructor."The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
12/04/2010 6:51am, #6
As a beginner the biggest difficulties arise from coordination and so you need to spend as much time building your coordination as possible. By splitting your time learning left and right throws you will not be optimally improving your coordination skills.
The only thing you should practice to the left as a beginner is tsurikomi. If you just practice tsurikomi to the left but do tsurikomi and throws to the right. Then when you have learnt the coordination skills for sufficient throws to the right and have developed enough Judo skill and get to a level where you may need to start thinking about adding in a throw to the left then having practiced tsurikomi to the left will mean its much easier to learn throws to the left.
Ai yotsu situations - right on right, left on left and Kenka yotsu situations - Right on left, have different dynamics. However the core principles of debana, movement, tai sabaki and kuzushi all remain the same.
I suggest you take some time to read through these threads:
Fundamentals of Judo - Tsurikomi and the Triangle - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Fundamentals of Judo – Practicing combinations - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Fundamentals of Judo – Continual Kuzushi - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Fundamentals of Judo - Hips - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Fundamentals of Judo – Tokuiwaza - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
12/04/2010 6:56am, #7
This came up at training last night. A Brazilian guy was telling us that even though he's right handed, he was taught to fight southpaw to give him an advantage. Apparently everyone there is only taught to throw on one side, and get confused by someone trying to grip the other way. He said Europeans handle it better.
12/04/2010 10:47am, #8
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- W. Yorks, UK
And yeah, if you're right handed, throwing lefty will catch out a hell of a lot of people...
Edit: I see there are differences of opinion, but that's my feeling.
12/04/2010 11:03am, #9
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Internet Warrior, BJJ
for what it's worth i totally suck at judo, but i have a really good left tai otoshi, and have hit a decent judo black belt with it. (who otherwise throws me around like a girl)
i guess my point is that being good at something that people aren't used to dealing with can be a lifesaver.
Last edited by v1y; 12/04/2010 11:09am at .
12/04/2010 11:26am, #10
What's the point of practicing a throw in uchikomi? To be able to apply the throw in randori, presumably?
Why do we use uchikomi to learn throws? To develop the coordination skills necessary to put our body in the right position for the throw whilst off balancing uke. Every Judo requires; feet, hips, head and arms to be operating simultaneously performing very different actions. This is what makes learning the basic mechanics of a Judo throw hard - the coordination aspect. This is especially true in adult beginners where gaining new coordination skills is difficult.
As a result you need to maximise the time you spend learning how to coordinate your body for a throw. Trying to learn every throw to both left and right makes this process much more difficult and much longer. As a beginner you need to be concentrating on the basics, this applies to everything, not just to the basics of techniques and getting those down.
The basics also involve how to move, controlling the space, controlling uke, controlling yourself, movement patterns etc...
Now those are incredibly difficult things to learn and are what take most Judoka the longest to learn. Those things are what underpin the successfull dynamic application of techniques and where most beginner Judoka struggle the most.
Now learning all those dynamic skills and control is very hard doing it just right handed, but if you try and do it left handed as well it gets even harder and more difficult. The kenka yotsu situation is quite different to the ai yotsu situation and thus movement patterns etc... are all quite different.
Its overwhelming enough for a beginner trying to learn coordination skills for 5 or 6 techniques to their natural side and all the dynamic skills necessary to apply those techniques in a randori situation. Adding in the extra stress of learning coordination for those 5 or 6 techniques to the over side and the skills to apply them makes things nightmareishly hard when they're already really difficult.
I think that you shouldn't start learning throws to your non natural side until you're a dan grade. No doubt this will elicit cries of 'well isn't it better to build up those coordination skills you talked about early and won't coming to it late be harder'. Of course this is the case, that is why in my original response I advocated tsurikomi training to the non-natural side not throwing practice.
For reference by tsurikomi practice I mean this:
The two Japanese in white are doing what I am talking about. This drill develops the fundmental skill of tsurikomi which underpins all forward throws. I've talked about this at length in one of the above linked threads. Now practicing this drill will not take too much time as to distract you from learning throws and it will not overly increase your coordination learning troubles. However, what it will do is give you a key coordination element so that when you do become ready to learn throws to the left and associated movement patterns etc... You have the basis and can 'catch up' quickly.
The only throws a right hander should learn to both sides before they become a dan grade are De ashi barai, Ko soto gari and Okuri ashi harai. This is because they're very very useful ashiwaza and can be combined very nicely with right handed throws i.e Right Sasae tsurikomi ashi to left Okuri ashi harai, left De ashi barai to right O soto gari. And they don't have the extensive coordination difficulties that learning a Tai otoshi or Seoi nage does.