Page 36 of 37 First ... 26323334353637 Last
  1. #351

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    2,177
    Style
    Jiu-Jitsu, Judo,Wrestling
    Click Here to Visit My Business
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk_ View Post
    Okay, he has every legit name in the biz singing he's praises. From Machado to Insanto and even the Dog Brothers! The only person who's not swallowed the blue pill is Mat Thornton, founder of SBGi (who hasn't paid him a visit). I think this guy has warranted himself a visit from someone from Bullshido. Any members in the area willing to him a visit? And write a report/review of his school and the experience. I've noticed one thing, he's very selectively managed to attract the big names, the ones our kind respect, yet non have said they're moving onto learn his system. They just say it works and that's it. I smell a pay off of some kind.
    If you are Rigan Machado, the smallest improvement in your biomechanics, or efficiency, on top of your own base of knowledge is valuable.
    When we start training, we tend to look for big, easily seen things.
    After a few decades of practice, we begin to really pay attention and look for the smallest details and principles that make the fundamental foundations useful.
    As other people have said, if you only train things like high level bio-mechanics in very structured training models without ever sparring, you are in for quite a schock when you encounter a semi-skilled and athletic brawler who does comply with your soft biomechanics structured model.
    But, if you have been a lifelong brawler, and then go back to school on high level biomechanics, that is quite a different polishing or further finishing process.
    Many people learning Judo, even sometimes lifers, focus on trying to hit the throw they have been able to do before.
    But, many people after long practice of Judo really pay attention to the angle, their own posture, their opponents posture, etc, knowing that it is the combination of those factors that cause natural opportunities for throws in their right context, with maximum efficiency at minimal cost.
    I don't know if Systema will improve your Judo or your Jiu-Jitsu.
    But any process that helps you focus on your posture, your opponents posture, angle management, distance management, your balance, your opponents balance, and right footwork is potentially quite useful.
    One of the values of Dog Brothers staff or short stick training for grappling MMA fighters is that type of training really makes you focus on distance management, because...getting hit with a real stick is a motivating learning tool that resembles the range of vulnerability for a kick but that does not require the unbalancing investment of the person launching the stick strike that a kick does (ie the kicker puts themselves on one leg, whereas a stick striker does not have to in order to launch that often punishing strike from similar range).
    So, there are many, many ways to train in useful manners, and even more ways to waste one's time.
    That is why a really qualified coach, with several decades of coaching high level players is very valuable, and they sometimes do things differently than the folks who provide a lot of coaching value but only have a decade or two (or even less) under their belt.
    Conversely, a purple belt level BJJ player who coaches a team really focusing on a narrow, high utility set of games, and also really spares no expense of suffering when it comes to conditioning can also bring a team to competition that holds their own with teams by "better" or more knowledgeable coaches (ie black belts).
    In truly complex domains, there are many paths to high utility peaks of fitness or "goodness" in a variety of challenges to their "goodness".
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 9/08/2017 1:31pm at .

  2. #352
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Tampa Fl
    Posts
    5,523
    Style
    Gracie Jiu Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    If you are Rigan Machado, the smallest improvement in your biomechanics, or efficiency, on top of your own base of knowledge is valuable.
    When we start training, we tend to look for big, easily seen things.
    After a few decades of practice, we begin to really pay attention and look for the smallest details and principles that make the fundamental foundations useful.
    As other people have said, if you only train things like high level bio-mechanics in very structured training models without ever sparring, you are in for quite a schock when you encounter a semi-skilled and athletic brawler who does comply with you soft biomechanics structured model.
    But, if you have been a lifelong brawler, and then go back to school on high level biomechanics, that is quite a different polishing or further finishing process.
    Many people learning Judo, even sometimes lifers, focus on trying to hit the throw they have been able to do before.
    But, many people after long practice of Judo really pay attention to the angle, their own posture, their opponents posture, etc, knowing that it is the combination of those factors that cause natural opportunities for throws in their right context, with maximum efficiency at minimal cost.
    I don't know if Systema will improve your Judo or your Jiu-Jitsu.
    But any process that helps you focus on your posture, your opponents posture, angle management, distance management, your balance, your opponents balance, and right footwork is potentially quite useful.
    One of the values of Dog Brothers staff or short stick training for grappling MMA fighters is that type of training really makes you focus on distance management, because...getting hit with a real stick is a motivating learning tool that resembles the range of vulnerability for a kick but that does not require the unbalancing investment of the person launching the stick strike that a kick does (ie the kicker puts themselves on one leg, whereas a stick striker does not have to in order to launch that strike from similar range).
    So, there are many, many ways to train in useful manners, and even more ways to waste one's time.
    That is why a really qualified coach, with several decades of coaching high level players is very valuable, and they sometimes do things differently than the folks who provide a lot of coaching value but only have a decade or two under their belt.
    Or you're somebody who's completely for sale and would give somebody a black belt who I know for a fact is a complete and total fucking hack and is opening a school in the Tampa Bay area.

  3. #353

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    2,177
    Style
    Jiu-Jitsu, Judo,Wrestling
    Click Here to Visit My Business
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Or you're somebody who's completely for sale and would give somebody a black belt who I know for a fact is a complete and total fucking hack and is opening a school in the Tampa Bay area.
    That happens too sometimes.
    I know people who have promoted their spouse to a high belt in Judo or BJJ and the spouse did not seem to have a competition record to speak of, and they were either at or below the generally accepted minimum times in grade for that belt.
    So, that is the real world for us, I guess.
    Which is why I am for some external check or confirmation of promotions, and as annoying as some of the organizations are, I generally suspect they do provide some legitimate value in this regard.
    In G/BJJ particularly, unless one is clearly medically disabled, there is a tradition and expectation of being able to defend one's own belt in rolls when challenged or asked to roll or in competition.

  4. #354
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,614
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    If you are Rigan Machado, the smallest improvement in your biomechanics, or efficiency, on top of your own base of knowledge is valuable.
    When we start training, we tend to look for big, easily seen things.
    After a few decades of practice, we begin to really pay attention and look for the smallest details and principles that make the fundamental foundations useful.
    As other people have said, if you only train things like high level bio-mechanics in very structured training models without ever sparring, you are in for quite a schock when you encounter a semi-skilled and athletic brawler who does comply with you soft biomechanics structured model.
    But, if you have been a lifelong brawler, and then go back to school on high level biomechanics, that is quite a different polishing or further finishing process.
    Many people learning Judo, even sometimes lifers, focus on trying to hit the throw they have been able to do before.
    But, many people after long practice of Judo really pay attention to the angle, their own posture, their opponents posture, etc, knowing that it is the combination of those factors that cause natural opportunities for throws in their right context, with maximum efficiency at minimal cost.
    I don't know if Systema will improve your Judo or your Jiu-Jitsu.
    But any process that helps you focus on your posture, your opponents posture, angle management, distance management, your balance, your opponents balance, and right footwork is potentially quite useful.
    One of the values of Dog Brothers staff or short stick training for grappling MMA fighters is that type of training really makes you focus on distance management, because...getting hit with a real stick is a motivating learning tool that resembles the range of vulnerability for a kick but that does not require the unbalancing investment of the person launching the stick strike that a kick does (ie the kicker puts themselves on one leg, whereas a stick striker does not have to in order to launch that often punishing strike from similar range).
    So, there are many, many ways to train in useful manners, and even more ways to waste one's time.
    That is why a really qualified coach, with several decades of coaching high level players is very valuable, and they sometimes do things differently than the folks who provide a lot of coaching value but only have a decade or two (or even less) under their belt.
    Conversely, a purple belt level player who coaches a team really focusing on a narrow, high utility set of games, and also really spares no expense when it comes to conditioning can also bring a team to competition that holds their own with teams by "better" or more knowledgeable coaches (ie black belts).
    In truly complex domains, there are many paths to high utility peaks of fitness or "goodness" in a variety of challenges to their "goodness".
    Nice post, I pretty much agree.

    I also agree with what Rayce replied, too.

    Because, like you say, in truly complex domains...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  5. #355
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Tampa Fl
    Posts
    5,523
    Style
    Gracie Jiu Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    That happens too sometimes.
    I know people who have promoted their spouse to a high belt in Judo or BJJ and the spouse did not seem to have a competition record to speak of, and they were either at or below the generally accepted minimum times in grade for that belt.
    So, that is the real world for us, I guess.
    Which is why I am for some external check or confirmation of promotions, and as annoying as some of the organizations are, I generally suspect they do provide some legitimate value in this regard.
    In G/BJJ particularly, unless one is clearly medically disabled, there is a tradition of being able to defend one's own belt in rolls when challenged or asked to roll or in competition.
    You may hear of the guy I am referring to. It's in your neck of the woods. I would bet one of your brown belts could beat him without hands.

  6. #356
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,614
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    You may hear of the guy I am referring to. It's in your neck of the woods. I would bet one of your brown belts could beat him without hands.
    Well, then, Bill could beat him with chi-balls...

    The world is full of underwhelming black belts in legit systems, in case you didn't notice already.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  7. #357

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    2,177
    Style
    Jiu-Jitsu, Judo,Wrestling
    Click Here to Visit My Business
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Well, then, Bill could beat him with chi-balls...

    The world is full of underwhelming black belts in legit systems, in case you didn't notice already.
    I have no chi. I couldn't afford any, and I lack the imagination.

  8. #358
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,614
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I have no chi. I couldn't afford any, and I lack the imagination.
    A man's gotta know his limitations...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  9. #359
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Posts
    1,279
    Style
    Pramek/Sambo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    If you are Rigan Machado, the smallest improvement in your biomechanics, or efficiency, on top of your own base of knowledge is valuable.
    When we start training, we tend to look for big, easily seen things.
    After a few decades of practice, we begin to really pay attention and look for the smallest details and principles that make the fundamental foundations useful.
    As other people have said, if you only train things like high level bio-mechanics in very structured training models without ever sparring, you are in for quite a schock when you encounter a semi-skilled and athletic brawler who does comply with your soft biomechanics structured model.
    Having taken more than an idle stroll through the RMA world, in fact I have trained with almost every major school in the RMA world, I'm going to call BS on this. Biomechanics is a science, quite literally it is science, using area specific terms, theories, and such. Thus whenever someone starts talking biomechanics, I should be able to reach up on to my bookshelf, pull down a biomechanics textbook and look up the principles and theories that they are talking about. Unfortunately there are only two RMA affiliations that you can do that with, and V/R Systema(and Martin Wheeler by extension) isn't one of them. Sure there are some remnants of stuff that they once stole from another RMA school(you know back in the day when they plagiarized an entire manual), but it is a lot of crap, and has gotten increasingly divorced from any sound biomechanical principles on striking or grappling over the years as to have become essentially detrimental to training. Aside from my own RMA background everything written above is independently verifiable with just a quick stroll with google.

    Now if you want to go RMA Biomechanics, my personal recomendation would be to seek out A.I. Retuinskih. Reasons, 1) He was part of the original Soviet research team into biomechanics and combat. 2) He taught biomechanics at the Krasnodar Polytechnic institute for nigh on two decades 3) He holds a Judo black belt, MoS in Judo, is a multi-time Russian national champion in sport Sambo and Combat Sambo and holds HMoS in Sambo. 4) Ido Portal, one of Conor McGregor's coaches is from his lineage. 5) You can go to his six week intensive international camp for roughly the same price it would cost you to drop in with Wheeler for a week, and in the end you might even be able to get a low level certification from Retuinskih if you applied yourself. Funnily enough leading up to the Mayweather fight when Conor was showing off some of the stuff he had learned from Ido every branch of RMA was trying to claim Ido and by extension McGregor except for Retuinskih, I guess when you coach the Russian National Combat Sambo team, you don't need to claim a 4th generation removed fighter...

  10. #360
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,614
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Having taken more than an idle stroll through the RMA world, in fact I have trained with almost every major school in the RMA world, I'm going to call BS on this. Biomechanics is a science, quite literally it is science, using area specific terms, theories, and such. Thus whenever someone starts talking biomechanics, I should be able to reach up on to my bookshelf, pull down a biomechanics textbook and look up the principles and theories that they are talking about. Unfortunately there are only two RMA affiliations that you can do that with, and V/R Systema(and Martin Wheeler by extension) isn't one of them. Sure there are some remnants of stuff that they once stole from another RMA school(you know back in the day when they plagiarized an entire manual), but it is a lot of crap, and has gotten increasingly divorced from any sound biomechanical principles on striking or grappling over the years as to have become essentially detrimental to training. Aside from my own RMA background everything written above is independently verifiable with just a quick stroll with google.

    Now if you want to go RMA Biomechanics, my personal recomendation would be to seek out A.I. Retuinskih. Reasons, 1) He was part of the original Soviet research team into biomechanics and combat. 2) He taught biomechanics at the Krasnodar Polytechnic institute for nigh on two decades 3) He holds a Judo black belt, MoS in Judo, is a multi-time Russian national champion in sport Sambo and Combat Sambo and holds HMoS in Sambo. 4) Ido Portal, one of Conor McGregor's coaches is from his lineage. 5) You can go to his six week intensive international camp for roughly the same price it would cost you to drop in with Wheeler for a week, and in the end you might even be able to get a low level certification from Retuinskih if you applied yourself. Funnily enough leading up to the Mayweather fight when Conor was showing off some of the stuff he had learned from Ido every branch of RMA was trying to claim Ido and by extension McGregor except for Retuinskih, I guess when you coach the Russian National Combat Sambo team, you don't need to claim a 4th generation removed fighter...
    Crap, I fat fingered that one Michael sorry great post on your part.

    I can understand why people who put a good amount of time and energy in sweat and Blood and Tears into something might want to make a living at it another words monetize all that experience if they really have that experience at aren't making it up.

    But doing fraudulent stuff is way out of bounds.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

Page 36 of 37 First ... 26323334353637 Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in