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  1. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2011 9:14am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread has been culled, all the offending posts moved to Trollshido
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  2. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 8:12am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Both the investigative titled thread and the video critique thread have now been merged to make it easier for me to sift through it's content for the write-up.

    I'm giving this thread a deadline of the end of this month by which time I will conclude the write-up.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  3. TexJohn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 10:31pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have been a major fan of this site for a couple of years now and have only recently decided to join, and my decision is mainly because of people like Luke Holloway. I am a police officer, an active SWAT member and a defensive tactics instructor, and will be glad to provide my credentials to a moderator for verification. I am not here to attack Mr. Holloway’s physique (however I would never show up to train other police officers in the shape that he commonly appears on youtube), nor can I provide any details on his training or credentials . I can, however, give a professional’s critique on his tactics based on my personal training and experience.
    This was how I was first introduced to Mr. Holloway (his weapons retention video):

    I commonly look for new tactics from youtube and other sites, and my supervisor turned me on to this one and asked my opinion. Well, here is my opinon…

    I was first concerned by Mr. Holloway’s tactics in 0:12 in the video which shows a picture of him straddling an obvious prisoner (handcuffed position) and pointing his secondary firearm at another target (primary appears to be holstered). It bothers me that he would place himself in this type of position over a bad guy to engage another bad guy. Unless he is simulating a dire emergency, I suggest to my students to separate myself when forced to engage secondary targets, as the first suspect has the ability to knock your aim. As a side note, Mr. Holloway is apparently killing something in this picture as his finger is inside of the trigger well and not along the slide.

    Just from a practical sense, throughout the video, Mr. Holloway wears two zip-restraints on the front of his waist and it appears that they are hanging from the same keeper. Anybody with one ounce of tactical common sense can see that once you unbutton the keeper to retrieve the zip-restraint, the other will fall. Carrying on…

    I will not discuss the pawing techniques that are displayed from 02:13 to 03:06, due to the fact that the sound is omitted (presumably for top secret reasons) and he could be giving sound tactical advise as he repeatedly takes his eyes off of the suspect while he blocks and paws the suspect, who blindly reaches for Mr. Holloway’s gun over and over.

    At around 03:20, we see that Mr. Holloway chooses to carry his spare pistol magazines on his off-hand hip. I find this a strange place to carry spare magazine holsters. In my training and experience, when a police officer (or most other professionals) fires their weapon their hands are up high on their center line (refer to 0:12). So, it is only good practice to carry ones spare magazines in the front of one’s belt where you have the ability to retrieve them with shorter quicker movements. Maybe it is difficult for Mr. Holloway to carry them in such a position, due to his slightly protruding belly. I suggest a cardio program.

    At 04:09, Mr. Holloway directly cites the FBI, stating that their review of police shootings revealed that 60% of all police officer fatalities are from their own firearms. I agree that this would be a safe assumption, but I have yet to find anything written with these numbers. The FBI conducts the Uniform Crime Report every year. In 2010 (when this video was made), I have found NO reports or statistics on this 60%. He shouldn’t cite without proper cites.
    Around 06:07, you will see Mr. Holloway showing how to parry a person attempting to take your gun from behind. This appears to be a dance routine. At which point I will refer you to 04:54, where Mr. Holloway criticizes those other youtube videos where they are “so choreographical.” Yes, “choreographical.”

    I realize that in the training block in the ballpark of 07:05, Mr. Holloway is showing how a tacticool vest, no doubt full all kinds of awesome, like his can be an intermediate barrier to a blade attack. However, I strongly suggest that he be training his students to meet a knife attack with immediate and violent force of a firearm and to create as much distance as possible when administering that force. I digress.

    At 07:38 is where I absolutely lose it. Mr. Holloway is actually teaching professional police officers to “fight with an open hand” due to the mass amounts cameras around. In a situation where a suspect is attempting to take my firearm or attempting to harm me, the last thing on my mind will be the cameras around me. Does it look good when a police officer punches someone? Absolutely not. However, if I am fighting for my life (which that is what you are doing when someone is attempting to take away your gun, douche bag) I will punch, gouge, bite, kick and shoot until I am safe again. Not to mention, he displays some awesome punching skills in this section which is a must see.

    At 09:25 is an interesting part of the instructional video. I will not reveal specific police tactics, however it is not a good idea to stand straight onto the suspect’s head at that distance while your partner handcuffs the suspect. This is due to the fear that you may need to use that firearm on the downed suspect and accidentally shoot your partner.

    Oh good lord we come to 09:40. It is at this point where I say that Mr. Holloway has NEVER handcuffed anyone! He states that he now has control, and by control he means straddling someone, while standing over them gallantly and holding his gun. I sure hope that there is no LEO out there planning or currently using this, because it will definitely lead to one of his 60% statistic.

    Finally, I suffered through this whole 11+ minute video. Any professional who has been to a real street survival school or a real weapon retention class can attest that you are going to spend most of your training days on the ground. Why, you may ask? Well, that is where you are most likely going to be fighting for your gun! Rarely are you going to have such a nice guy suspect that is going to leave himself open, walk towards a cop with an outstretched arm and try to take the cop’s gun. Furthermore, Mr. Holloway does not, at any point, show an actual scramble for his sidearm. All of the “attacks” he displays are stale.
    I am not an expert, and I expect to be challenged but I guarantee that this man is not a tactically sound LEO, of any sort. Secondly, I would not advise anyone to practice the tactics used by Mr. Holloway.
  4. TexJohn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 10:32pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hope that I did not post in the wrong place, this was my first post. Please don't crucify me!
  5. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 11:01pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a fellow LEO...SWAT "used to be" and current narc cop I agree. But I also carry my spare mags on my off hand hip. That's for concealability reasons though.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  6. Auszi is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 11:20pm


     Style: BJJ Beginner

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rock Ape, will the links to the original threads still work? As I have posted those on sites where Luke has had interviews inviting people with information to comment.
  7. TexJohn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2011 11:34pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    As a fellow LEO...SWAT "used to be" and current narc cop I agree. But I also carry my spare mags on my off hand hip. That's for concealability reasons though.
    I can definitely see what you are saying, IF you are in a plain clothes situation (as I am now).
  8. TexJohn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2011 12:06am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would like to end my take on Mr. Holloway by critiquing this solid, painful and smelly turd of a training video, which was previously mentioned and commented on:


    I watched a total of two minutes of this eleven minute thing. He states that you don't want to strike someone in the head because it looks bad. Mild pain in the temporal lobe. If the guy has a knife and he wants to harm you with it, any response outside of deadly force is idiotic. Let me clear one thing up, I am not an advocate of killing people in the line of duty. However, as a person, if I am being attacked with a knife, my intention is to do the most amount of harm to the guy as I possibly can to stop him from harming me. Finally, the only reason that a baton will be in my hand during a knife fight is if it is already there prior to the asshole pulling out a knife. Even in this scenario, I will specifically target said asshole's head until I can get my handgun out.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2011 1:52am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Auszi View Post
    Rock Ape, will the links to the original threads still work? As I have posted those on sites where Luke has had interviews inviting people with information to comment.
    Yes, once merged old links will redirect automatically to his thread. Well, they should we have had a few issues now and again.
  10. Cole is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2011 5:51am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kick Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I had to guess I'd say he's taking what he was taught in a one day batons and handcuffs course and disastrously misapplying it to 'special operative operator operating in operations' fantasy scenarios and lines of work he doesn't have a clue one, i.e. anything beyond pub bouncer/shopping centre security guard.

    When I got my batons and handcuffs training (NSW, Australia) it was stressed that you don't hit your attacker in the head, or joints, only large muscles - thighs, calves, forearms, upper arms, abdomen. This is baton use as it pertains to dealing with drunken yobbos, crowd control, and other unarmed people that may be attempting to assault you. Not armed attackers, not people trying to take your gun. Someone pulls a knife you cave their skull in. Or if you're a Victorian policeman you shoot them dead.

    As for the open hand strike bullshit, against someone trying to take your firearm of all things, I don't know WTF he was thinking. Again, I can only speculate that he's taking training from an area that he knows, with reasoning that he knows, and applying it to situations he doesn't have a clue on.

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