10/16/2011 12:03pm, #141
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Brooklyn, New York
Are you saying with this training you think someone should be out there training people? Charging people for your expertise? Do you think with that amount og time you can effectively recognize bad habits, and breakdown people shooting technique and build them up to be effective shooters?
Personally, I've done quite a bit of shooting but I don't think I can do that. Sure I can probably teach anyone how to shoot well, but as it stands my skills are still untested. I wouldn't feel right going out there and trying to make myself out to be some kind of coach/expert, because at the end of the day I only know the basics. I still feel this way after years of shooting and formal training. I think it's appalling that someone would try to con people like this.
Malcolm Gladwell study, "Outliers: The Story of Success" (Little, Brown & Co., 2008)states that it takes 10,000 hours (10 years) of deliberate practice to achieve true mastery of any skill.
10/16/2011 12:25pm, #142
I agree, I don't feel comfortable saying I have enough experience to charge people for training either. Except maybe for very basic LE/Firearms related topics that I have taught at my PD as part of my duties as a supervisor.
Just by way of comparison, this is what the online resume of a REAL "operator" (past) looks like:
Thing is..Larry doesn't teach the MMA/Knife Fighting/Firearms/Bodyguard hodge-podge. THAT'S what the people who go to LH seem to be looking for. They want the "Ninjaesque" package vs seeking specialized training from people who are honest about their expertise.
Last edited by tgace; 10/16/2011 12:31pm at .
10/16/2011 3:22pm, #143
Since I really have no first hand experience with this person I can only state my personal opinions and observations based on LH's internet presence. Take a look at these two videos.
Note the extreme difference in "instructional style" and draw your own conclusion. Now not everybody is as polished an instructor as Travis Haley, but I would think that someone who travels the world teaching mil/le/"operators" would have a far more polished and concise training "module" put together. What I look for in training is a clear and essentially simple technique that is then placed into a more complex context. For example Haley's reload instruction will eventually be combined with shooting from behind cover which will then be combined with movement towards or away from a threat which will then be applied in some sort of scenario incorporating all of the above plus target location and identification while under pressure.
I get the feeling that LH's training involves a lot of listening to some guy speak about a lot of different and disconnected stuff. Which all sounds very logical but leaves you feeling confused about what exactly your are are being shown. I have no proof of that because all I see are clips like the above, but I have been to so many training events like that in the past that I feel comfortable making an educated guess.
Last edited by tgace; 10/16/2011 3:34pm at .
10/16/2011 6:58pm, #144
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
1st rule of sparring with him was that you were not allowed to strike him in the head. He has part of his skull replaced because of an operation to remove a tumor. Supposedly this prevented him from competing, but I don't know if this is true. I've seen the scar and know he spent some time in hospital as a teenager, but I can't verify his medical history.
Not a criticism, per se...But he has no problem punching others in the face during sparring despite expecting others not to do the same to him. That was kind of annoying. Especially as he sticks his chin out and has a very wide guard, wider than I have seen in MT anyway. In any event, he relies a lot on his reach, but even a novice like myself had no problem checking some of his kicks and landing bodyshots during sparring. Despite claiming at one time to have a 5th degree black belt in Tong Long, he had very little control in short range and his 'clinches' were not very effective. His elbows are decent though, plus he can throw out some strong knees and snap kicks (shin tek?) without telegraphing them, which is surprising considering his TKD background.
His 'Shui Jiao' could not throw me, though to be fair I had played a bit of Judo in high school. I could take him down messily if I got within his reach. All grappling after that was conducted by starting on the knees. All he would do was use his reach to put some kind of a guillotine(?) on me. I don't claim to be a knowledgable or experienced grappler, but that was all he did. If you rolled with him he would do that one move and that was it. Nothing else was trained, so I can't comment on his training there.
As for his more recent claims, I can't comment on them as I have very little experience with the RBSD side of martial arts. I do find his claims of being an experienced hunter a bit hard to swallow though. His outdoors skills are mediocre at best, from what I have seen. Very few rabbits in Queensland and he does not strike me as the type to go bush, hunting feral pigs or culling roo's for a week at a time.
10/16/2011 10:41pm, #145
In all seriousness, LH reminds me of kids that train "UFC". Not had a fight yet, or done much sparring, but they'll be the first to say they're a fighter.
This thread comes up on the first page of a google search for his name, so that should be some assistance to the potential consumer.
10/17/2011 12:48am, #146
Sgt. Cruz stated that he has known LH for approx. 2 years and that Holloway took some firearm training courses through his facility. LH requested that Sgt. Cruz's company provide firearms training to future classes hosted by LH's "Raw Combat International" as a contract instructor. Sgt. Cruz stated that his relationship with LH is to provide firearms training as an addition to Holloway's local combatives training group. Sgt. Cruz stated that beyond H2H combatives he didn't really know what sort of training LH was supposed to be teaching to Mil/LE personnel. As a guy trying to make a go of a firearms training facility I can't find fault in associating with a guy who is bringing in clients. In the end there isn't anything illegal going on here...just a "buyer beware" issue.
Cruz stated that LH seemed like a likable "no BS" sort of guy which I have no reason to doubt. I don't believe that there is any issue past the resume hyperbole.
I tend to be highly skeptical of these young "Jack of all trades" (H2H, knife fighting, firearms, "tactical" training, etc) types. If Holloway just stuck to teaching his martial arts and was good at it I'd be more inclined to be charitable in my opinion. The resume padding thing, while understandable for a guy trying to make a buck is just seen far too often. The promo pictures in Tac Vest and weapons though is straight from the Jim Wagner files, there is obviously an attempt to cash in on the "tactical thing" which, like Wagner, I doubt he has the credentials to do. Hell, I've actually DONE tactical operations and I don't think I'm qualified to place ad's showing me in tactical gear trying to sell training.
But that's just me I guess.
Last edited by tgace; 10/17/2011 1:14am at .
10/17/2011 12:52am, #147
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
This is another red flag. Luke has mentioned this operation before on one of his old sites, I think it was called Zheng Dao. Taking into account his very young and that this occurred in as a teenager, when would have he been able to pressure test his techniques?
If you cant get hit in the head, you cant pressure test, I think it would even make work as a bouncer difficult.
I can understand a very experienced older person with possible injuries still having something to offer but someone Luke's age, I just don't see what he could offer considering his apparent limitations.
10/17/2011 2:38am, #148
Is it possible that LH wasn't overly impaired by the resulting scar from his childhood surgery, but uses(d) it as an excuse to not have his techniques pressure-tested by those he's "teaching" "his" "skills" to?
On the one side of the coin, there's the potential that because of this genuine condition, he's never really been in a position to do much of any of the things claimed/implied. On the other side, is the distinct possibility that he's an "I'm hard" larpy type, who loathes pain, and so uses it as an excuse to avoid adversity.
Like Basil Fawlty grabbing his "war wound" whenever Sybil looked like she was about to clock him. "touch of the old knee"?
10/18/2011 9:03am, #149
Bottom seminar, apparently he's selling the tips from the pros
This volume includes third party protection concepts, theory and practice explained and demontrated in depth by Luke Holloway.
Some footage was taken from courses in the US and some in Belgium, therefore part of this DVD is also translated into French.
Particpants in the courses shown in this DVD are active security/close protection operatives and law enforcement officers. Here is your chance to get the 'tricks of the trade' by the pros!
Learn how to plan and deal with high-stress situations and protect your VIP (which could even be a loved one) as the pros do!
In this DVD you also receive a free introduction to transport seucurity, teaching you how to use the vehicle as bodyguards do! This DVD is one of many in a new series about to be released! This is a must have in the library for those who are looking to become a proffesional, update/further their professional knowledge and skills or even those who just want to be able to protect their loved ones to the BEST of their ability!"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
10/18/2011 9:10am, #150
Hi T Gace, did he specify what specific courses Luke had taken, and did he have any opinion as to Luke's proficiency with firearms?