Luke Holloway/Team Wujin/RAW Combat Investigation Thread

**Bogus** · Posted On: 10/05/2011 12:05pm

Honestly, I'm over it. A mate of mine sent me a tube link with some CMA stuff and it reminded me of my time at Zhen Dao Wushu. I did a bit of google searching and found my way here.

I'm not even living in the same state and I barely keep in touch with anyone from my time at that school. It has been over 5 years since I have even spoken to Luke.

Some of the things I learned were decent. Helped me hold my own in some amatuer Muay Thai bouts. Some of the stuff was garbage. Especially some of the weapons training. I would like to point out that I was paying $35 a fortnight at the time for lessons, so that in that light, it was more a waste of time then money.

One of the main things that grates on me regarding my experience at the school is the lies about his associations and experiences. They do not just reflect badly on him, but on the people he claimed association with. If he had simply been upfront, I would be more forgiving. I look at it now as juvenile posturing.

There were also a few occasions during training where people were singled out and berated. Luke almost seemed to encourage backstabbing and infighting amongst his students. All the while he would give sermons about hating the politics involved in traditional martial arts training. I have read up on the behavior of cults and psychopathic individuals since then, and Luke seems to fit some of the criteria for that kind of predatory behavior.

I have no clue as to the authenticity of his current claims. Maybe he has matured as an individual. I don't know. However, as this forum seems to be dedicated to exposing bullshit in martial arts, I thought I would share my experiences. Take it for what you will.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/05/2011 12:13pm

What Rock Ape is saying is that we do "take it is as we will," but as an investigative forum we must know the background. Many people come here to vent and stir up trouble. We demand of everyone, on both sides, tell us the motives of why they are posting.

In this specific sub-forum we are tough on both sides of the situation. If you decide to hammer someone we will ask you what are your motives. If you are a cheerleader we will ask you what are your motives.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 10/05/2011 1:22pm

Originally Posted by Bogus

I have no clue as to the authenticity of his current claims. Maybe he has matured as an individual. I don't know. However, as this forum seems to be dedicated to exposing bullshit in martial arts, I thought I would share my experiences. Take it for what you will.

Thanks..

Here's my take on Holloway from the vast amount of material he presents about himself in the public domain - He's a narcissistic personality who craves admiration from others. Not content with doing what he does and minding his own business, he seems absolutely compelled to make what he does known to the world at large, almost as if he's doing it to prove something. That in it's self is a major red flag within a community he claims and or aspires to operate in.

Despite all of the material he's posted on social networking sites, his own multiple domains and of course youtube, non of this information actually corroborates his claims (which I'm interested in) of being involved in teaching Military Special Forces and Law Enforcement his brand of fighting skills.

When you consider how much money Holloway wishes to charge people for his seminars, one wonders what basis of credibility those fees are based. So far, I haven't seen one shred of evidence to support much of what Holloway claims. Do I think he's that bothered about what I think ? Nope, but then this site doesn't exist for that reason nor do I care if Holloway isn't interested. But, let's spin this on it's head and use me as an example.

I'm active military, have been for a considerable number of years, I'm an experienced military instructor, qualified marksman and operationally experienced in current operational theater, (amongst others) When I see someone like Holloway teaching his brand of skill at arms I can instantly recognise poorly understood drills and skills, couple that with that fact he's videoed himself doing this using TOY GUNS, then I think you have a relatively good idea of what I think of his claim of being an "operator"

As a professional soldier, if someone was attacking, or at least aggressively questioning my background I'd jump at the opportunity of pushing that back down the throat of the imbecile asking.. why ? because I can, indeed I have, right here on this site.

I find it telling that Holloway needs to broadcast himself to the world as he does but he shys away from the opportunity of silencing arguably the largest English speaking martial arts website on the internet by answering a handful of very simple questions about his claims. However; also bear in mind that Holloway is in his early/mid twenties. His age doesn't afford him the life experience needed to be who he espouses to be. I think that answers my previous statement.

Dave

**Bogus** · Posted On: 10/06/2011 1:27pm

I can't speak to the authenticity of his current claims.

He had no specialised training 5 years ago. By specialised training, I mean the sort of thing I imagine some members of the armed services and police force would undertake as part of ongoing training.

I know that his father is/was in the Queensland police force. Some of the guys at a security company he worked for in Hervey Bay had an Australian Federal Police background.

Of course, knowing someone that performs a job that requires training, is not the same as undertaking that training yourself. I'm just suggesting that he could have some contacts that were able to provide him with this training in the last 5 years. Maybe his associations made him familliar with some of the terminology used, I don't know.

As for his age, he would be around 27. I think Rock Ape's assessment of his personality was pretty accurate, especially considering he has not met the guy.

Best of luck in your investigations. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

**Auszi** · Posted On: 10/09/2011 2:39pm

Originally Posted by gregaquaman

In security a licence is not exactly a certification. And it is different state by state.
the licence is your security guard/crowd controller/armed/personal protection. Just off the top of my head.

A certification means you have done a course and that can be anything from cert one to maby seven in security/croudcontrol (depending on the provider) but a cert will also be your first aid or responsible service of alcohol and so on. Some of it is needed and some of it is kind of fluff.

Give me some time to google foo to make sure I am right and I will try to post the certs.

Luke is essentially a victorian I think so I will work off that.

This is from the ISTA security training website.
http://www.ista.com.au/

Unarmed Guard and Crowd Control
CPP20207 Certificate II in Security Operations
Entry Level

Core Units
CPP30407 Certificate III in Security Operations

Armed Guard/Cash in Transit
CPP30407 Certificate III in Security Operations

Bodyguard
CPP30407 Certificate III in Security Operations

Dog Handling
CPP30407 Certificate III in Security Operations

Private Investigations
CPP30607 Certificate III in Investigative Services

Control Room Operator

Loss Prevention
Course in Loss Prevention

Tactical Response
Course in Tactical Response

Project Griffin
Course in Counterterrorism - Prevention and Response

Advanced Bodyguard (CPP)
Executive Protection Course

Training and Assessment
TAA04 Certificate IV in Training and Assessment

Operations Manager
CPP40707 Certificate IV in Security & Risk Management

Products We Offer:
Defensive Tactics Instructor Course
Firearms Instructor Course
Firearms Instructor Recertification (Existing Firearms Instructors)

In a strange sort of way most of those are actually needed to fill the roles. You cannot be a workplace trainer without the cert 4. You cant do personal protection without the bodyguard.

No surprises but he is playing some bullshit word games here, where technically what he is saying is true but not the meaning he is implying.

All registered training organisations (RTO) in Australia are certified by the Australian Government. Thats why they are called 'Registered'. So when he says certified, all it means is that it is a Nationally recognized qualification given by a Registered Training Organisation'. Not that the government specifically certifies an individual for a specific skill.

To give you an example, You can get a Certificate 4 or 3 in Hair Dressing and just like Mr Holloway you could say (technically) you are certified by the Australian Government. But it doesnt mean that Government runs special hair dressing course for special individuals

It doesnt mean the bullshit that he is implying.

I am currently doing my TAE Cert 4 In training and assessment.

Its just a basic training course. You need it to teach anything that is considered a national accredited course - even hairdressing.

It is nothing special. I will be training Occupational Health and Safety and need this so I can sign off on the people I am training.

Anyone who Pays can take these courses, even me. With no experience in the field and with these qualifications please note, they are practical but anything below Cert 4 is almost impossible to fail. Its competency based and you get like 6 months to complete your work. Even Cert4 you would have to be pretty challenged to fail.

Course usually cost from a couple of hundred dollars up to a few thousand depending on the course and usually last, up to Cert 4, only at the most usually a few weeks, but you still have months to complete the course work.

Cert 4 is the minimum to be able to teach and assess someone in a particular skill or subject.

Anything below Cert 4 is generally non-supervisory.

Certificate I - 4 to 6 months
Certificate I courses teach the foundation skills required in some industries, and are often part of a suite of courses that you can progress through.

Certificate II - 6 to 8 months
Certificate II courses provide preparation for employment and/or apprenticeships. They may also include traineeships with an on-the-job component.

Certificate III - 12
Certificate III courses teach well-developed skills in a range of occupational areas. Certificate III courses are roughly the same level as the former trade certificate courses offered by TAFE NSW.

Certificate IV - 12 to 18 months
Certificate IV courses usually teach supervisory skills and advanced technical skills which may build upon skills acquired in the workplace, a Certificate III course or equivalent.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 10/09/2011 4:18pm

Thank you for the information

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/09/2011 9:05pm

That's they type of clarification we needed thank you.

**Auszi** · Posted On: 10/11/2011 5:58am

Some extra information.

You can search this site http://training.gov.au/

For any accredited training courses and registered RTO's.

Here is the link to Cert III Security Operations

http://training.gov.au/Training/Details/CPP30411

It has the list of components as you scroll down and you can click on them

Let use one as example:

"CPPSEC3003A - Determine response to security risk situation Determine response to security risk situation"

At first glance this looks a pretty serious qualification, especially to someone who doesn't know better but you have to keep it context. This is Cert III level (Employee, supervised level). It could be and probably is as simple as dealing with a trespasser or kid trying to steal stuff from a shop you work in.

Another qualification that has this module:

PSP30704 - Certificate III in School Support Services Certificate III in School Support Services.

Not exactly high-profile counter terrorism.

Which brings me to my next point. All the qualifications are purely for civilian business purposes ie someone who has a Security Company, Alarms etc and Bouncers. You know the guys who drive around in little Mazda's with orange light, working shitty hours. Not Tactical Ops or the like.

I spoke to a friend who is Military trainer about this today and she said that the Military does not allow anyone to advertise or make public their training history within the Military. She actually told me that this is a real problem for people leaving the military as they cannot get Recognition of Prior Learning in skills they are competent in for civilian qualifications.

So if you are ex-Military and wanted to set up as a Security Expert, how would you get round this?

Your Military Record and demonstration of skill.

Second, if an individual or the company they work for is not a Registered Training Organisation(RTO). Any qualifications given by them are worthless, if they are advertising as certified qualifications. they will face legal action by the 'Australian Skills Quality Authority'. It is illegal for them to do so.

As a note, if your undertaking training in Australia look for this sign:

and search on training.gov.au. If the company doesn't have it, be very sure of the quality of the course you are undertaking as it will not be recognised as a national qualification.

Lastly, all RTO's in Australia need to have special license if they are training and certifying foreign nationals.

**bobyclumsyninja** · Posted On: 10/11/2011 9:45am

From:http://combativecorner.wordpress.com...luke-holloway/

...as certified by the Australian Government in Risk Management, Security, Protection, Crisis Management, Sports Coaching and Work Place Training & Assessment (etc) I was able to structure things pretty easily.. things kinda just.. fell into place.

So these claims may be technically true, but not in the context used?

Most of our members or active operatives in Security, Law Enforcement/Customs or Military including Japans newest Special Forces Group (CRF). I know what backgrounds, what training they have and what training they need to be able to respond to incidents effectively in a professional manner and therefore it’s easier to ‘train’ them.. but civys with a chip on their shoulder about doing a krav maga seminar and 2 kickboxing lessons I don’t have much time for to be honest. Too many **** dribblers! Talking about how they do ‘military martial arts’ or some **** how they are a ‘bodyguard’ yet don’t know the first thing about personal security concepts as they just mentioned their wife’s name, their kids names, where they live and where they’re from.. (displaying the fact that they don’t have a clue about any of the BASICS of protection on a professional level) I got all I need now to find them if I need to, lol.. just a waste of my time!

So according to him, all true security personnel live double lives, as it's too deadly to live openly? Should he be calling anyone civvies? Isn't he one?

I am originally from Queensland, Australia and grew up hunting/shooting and doing not much-else then that and martial arts.. hahaha, a sheltered childhood maybe?? lol.. just wasn’t into football or anything like that really…

reads like the bitter feeble-geek, showing all those people who bullied him who has the real d3adly now.

**Auszi** · Posted On: 10/11/2011 10:30am

Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja

So these claims may be technically true, but not in the context used?

Thats it. It should say

...as certified by a Registered Training Organisation in Australia (That also does a Cert III in Commercial Cookery: Real example), in Risk Management, Security, Protection, Crisis Management, Sports Coaching and Work Place Training & Assessment

Not knocking the qualification system. It really is great, if your an employer, you have a national standard and say you want someone to work security at a concert, its easy to see their competencies. That's the whole point, but keep it in context, anyone can do the courses. It is not secret specialized training.