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  1. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/01/2010 11:08pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Plyometrics, jump rope and something like this:
    http://www.trainforstrength.com/workout1.shtml
    are a nice way to start to get back into MAs.
  2. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 8:25am


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Plyometrics, jump rope and something like this:
    http://www.trainforstrength.com/workout1.shtml
    are a nice way to start to get back into MAs.
    Yes, when I read his post, plyometirics came to Mind. Jump rope is excellent - all boxers do it.

    For general fitness, cos it's not clear how fit/unfit he is, I would suggest a local Circuit Class. It's Structured, Variable in Intensity, Instructor-led, can build Group Morale so avoiding a competitive scenario which could only be off-putting for the beginner/unfit. 'Cos a bit of support always helps.

    Anyway, good luck. Be Kind to yourself. It takes time to get a reasonable to good level of fitness and it's not an Upward Curve so expect small peaks, troughs and plateaux (but you'll still be moving forward even when you think you're not). MA is the same.

    Cheers:biggrin:
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 10:51am

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    Yep, i should add that plyometrics can be demanding in a DOMS way.
    Take it easy at first and give yourself ample recovery time.
  4. jeane is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 10:58am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another question or two if you don't mind.

    What about heart rate? In all my years before the illness, I never felt the need to monitor it while doing any activities. Do you think I need to be concerned about it now?

    My resting heart rate pre-illness was in the 50s, now it's in the 70s. I'd like things to get close to my pre illness norm.
  5. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 1:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Yep, i should add that plyometrics can be demanding in a DOMS way.
    Take it easy at first and give yourself ample recovery time.
    I can't imagine plyos having a major DOMS impact. You're looking at 2-3 reps with 3-5 minutes of rest time, using a light weight and simply focusing on maximal speed.

    I also don't think they're a great technique for endurance. They're ideal for speed/power development, but the low reps, low weight, and long rest time means they're not going to be very taxing on one's endurance.

    I think jumping rope would be a better exercise choice, as there is a degree of jumping, but it can be sustained for a long period of time to promote endurance.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 1:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I can't imagine plyos having a major DOMS impact. You're looking at 2-3 reps with 3-5 minutes of rest time, using a light weight and simply focusing on maximal speed.

    I also don't think they're a great technique for endurance. They're ideal for speed/power development, but the low reps, low weight, and long rest time means they're not going to be very taxing on one's endurance.

    I think jumping rope would be a better exercise choice, as there is a degree of jumping, but it can be sustained for a long period of time to promote endurance.
    You are correct, however the caveats were for a beginner/someone getting back into it.
    IME plyometrics kill beginners and the recently sedentary.
    He's having trouble with jumping jacks...

    They outright suck for endurance, yes, but the poster was having trouble with jumping etc, so it seemed the appropriate way to address that.
    Sorry if i was unclear.


    What about heart rate? In all my years before the illness, I never felt the need to monitor it while doing any activities. Do you think I need to be concerned about it now?
    As your overall fitness increases, your resting HR should drop.
    HR is a very effective way to maximize some types of training but has limited appeal in the context of MAs imo.
  7. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 1:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just can't see a plyometric having any impact on the cardiovascular system, beginner or not. It's 2-3 jumps with 5 minute rest times. Also, if they don't have the conditioning to perform jumping jacks, they will get minimal benefit from plyos, as they lack of coordination and conditioning is gonna manifest in an inability to maintain pefect form and maximal acceleration.

    And same thing with the DOMS statement.

    I think something less technical and speed oriented would be of greater benefit, like jumping rope, or hell, jumping jacks if they are what is causing the issue. Plyos should be reserved for more advanced athletes, not a beginner.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 2:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Swing a Kettlebell for 5 minute intervals. Rest when you need to. Work towards ten minutes. (get proper instruction and follow the progressive steps obviously, KB's can hurt you).

    Practice and perfect returning your heart back down to normal levels quickly. People forget to actually practice this skill.

    There are other extreme environment training that athletes use, like sparring in a hot sauna or running at high altitude, but I don't think you meant that kind of thing.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 3:21pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I just can't see a plyometric having any impact on the cardiovascular system, beginner or not.
    Never claimed it would, i realize the thread title is "Endurance training" but i was responding to:
    Right now things like jumping jacks are wearing me completely out as do repetitive jump-kicks.

    It's 2-3 jumps with 5 minute rest times. Also, if they don't have the conditioning to perform jumping jacks, they will get minimal benefit from plyos, as they lack of coordination and conditioning is gonna manifest in an inability to maintain pefect form and maximal acceleration.
    This part ignores the jump kicks, which ime are much more demanding of coordination, form etc therefore plyometrics make a great stepping stone.

    And same thing with the DOMS statement.
    Not sure what you are implying, but if you have something to share i'm all ears.
    My understanding of DOMS is along the lines of this:
    DOMS is often precipitated predominantly by eccentric exercise, such as downhill running, plyometrics, and resistance training.
    (my bold)
    http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...der/domos.html



    I think something less technical and speed oriented would be of greater benefit, like jumping rope, or hell, jumping jacks if they are what is causing the issue. Plyos should be reserved for more advanced athletes, not a beginner.
    I generally agree, however simple plyometrics make a great addition to beginner (jumpy-strikey) ma classes for the previously stated reasons.
    I already recommended rope and "Train for Strength" in addition to the plyos as additional training based on the information given and stand by that assessment.
  10. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/02/2010 4:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Never claimed it would, i realize the thread title is "Endurance training" but i was responding to:




    This part ignores the jump kicks, which ime are much more demanding of coordination, form etc therefore plyometrics make a great stepping stone..

    Plyometrics aren't a stepping stone to fitness though. You don't do plyos to get in shape, you get in shape to do plyos. They are a much more demanding exercise than a jump kick, and a beginner simply will lack the coordination and CNS efficiency to be able to make any effective use out of the movement. Again, it's an advanced training technique, and a beginner with ZERO strength foundation doesn't need to worry about power development, they need to worry about simply building their athleticism and maximal strength.

    Furthermore, she is being "worn out" by repetitive jumping, something that plyos doesn't teach, as it's simply 1-3 jumps with a 5 minute rest period. A jump rope is repetitive jumping, ala jumping jacks and jump kicks, but is also low impact and doesn't require a focus on maximal speed and perfect form as a plyometric would.

    Edit: Also, if she's unable to perform jumping jacks without getting worn out, she clearly doesn't have the conditioning to effectively perform something as high demand as plyos and get any benefit. There is no way she is going to be able to generate maximal speed for every jump, and instead is just going to be jumping in place with no real training benefit.

    As for the word "plyometrics" quoted in your post, again, nothing about plyos would give a trainee a high level of doms, primarily as a result of the low volume paired with incredibly low load beared by the body.

    I would not suggest plyos to ANY beginner trainee. Time invested in plyos is much better invested simply improving conditioning and athleticism. They're a power development exercise, and should be used as such.
    Last edited by Emevas; 12/02/2010 4:21pm at .
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
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