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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:10pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Also an another thing I am noticing is the power of a punch from a machine would be rather linear compared to the power of a punch by human which looks to me to be more parabolic because of the way weight is shifted.
    It's funny you say that because THAT is exactly the difference between the electrical and pneumatic air drive. The electrical responds linearly (and would require braking to stop correctly just like SPARBOT), but PAMs approximate how real human muscles work via extension (at least I think so). In fact I'm surprised this design didn't go that route simply because they didn't have compressed air available...seems PAMs would have been cheaper, lighter, etc. They are, however, more delicate, but with the right chassis and attachments I don't see why that would be a problem.

    Lol based on Whacker's post in LPTP, I agree, this thing would be beaten to death by a real boxer in about a minute. To me the design here seems too sturdy...the real thing would have to actually take a huge amount of shock and dissipate it on something other than the components, or the entire thing would have to give way completely as if it were a buoy.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/19/2010 10:14pm at .
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    It's funny you say that because THAT is exactly the difference between the electrical and pneumatic air drive. The electrical responds linearly (and would require braking to stop correctly just like SPARBOT), but PAMs approximate how real human muscles work via extension. In fact I'm surprised this design didn't go that route simply because they didn't have compressed air available...seems PAMs would have been cheaper, lighter, etc. They are, however, more delicate, but with the right chassis and attachments I don't see why that would be a problem.
    The biggest problem with PAMs I can see is the need for an air reservoir and air compressor. Maintaining the right amount of air pressure and of course as you mentioned durability.
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:15pm

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    Here is just an exploratory thought but what about Hydraulics? Given hydraulics have all sorts of maintenance issues.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    The biggest problem with PAMs I can see is the need for an air reservoir and air compressor. Maintaining the right amount of air pressure and of course as you mentioned durability.
    Hmm...you gave me a neat idea. I wonder if the punching impact could somehow be turned into compression force, like a tire pump, so that simply punching the targets/mitts would be enough to suck more air into the machine through an intake, into a compressor for use, without requiring an air tank that would need to be refilled.

    It'd really be no different than a standard foot pump, only instead of using your foot, you use your fists.

    Hmm...
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Hmm...you gave me a neat idea. I wonder if the punching impact could somehow be turned into compression force, like a tire pump, so that simply punching the targets/mitts would be enough to suck more air into the machine through an intake, into a compressor for use, without requiring an air tank that would need to be refilled.

    It'd really be no different than a standard foot pump, only instead of using your foot, you use your fists.

    Hmm...
    I like the idea but this is where that whole things not being 100% efficient is going to bite you.
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:28pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    That's really just PAMs but using liquid instead of gas. There big difference is air can be compressed further and further, which is why the PAM-controlled Shadow Hand has such a delicate touch and "gives" when it needs to.

    Hydraulics would be unforgiving, you can't compress the liquids further. I think it would make for far too sturdy/immutable arm. I think if you tried to punch a hydraulic arm, you'd break your hand :)
    Some truth in that but most PAM systems are open systems vs hydraulic systems being closed.
    Hydraulics though do pose other safety issues that I would avoid anyways.
    Now if you could keep the PAM system 100% closed then it could work out pretty well but I am not to sure if I have seen any closed system in the PAM world.
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:31pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Some truth in that but most PAM systems are open systems vs hydraulic systems being closed.
    Hydraulics though do pose other safety issues that I would avoid anyways.
    Now if you could keep the PAM system 100% closed then it could work out pretty well but I am not to sure if I have seen any closed system in the PAM world.
    I thought the PAM system in the Shadow Hand was closed.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I thought the PAM system in the Shadow Hand was closed.
    http://www.shadowrobot.com/hand/techspec.shtml
    Consumption: each muscle has volume approximately 0.015 litres; worst case consumption for whole hand 24 litres/min.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2010 4:42am

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  10. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2010 1:59pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    http://www.shadowrobot.com/hand/techspec.shtml
    Consumption: each muscle has volume approximately 0.015 litres; worst case consumption for whole hand 24 litres/min.
    That's a lot of air, on the other hand the Shadow hand also has 40 PAMs to feed....it takes a lot of individual muscles and pairs to simulate the human hand as well as it does. I don't think a sparring bot needs nearly that many, probably just the primary extension muscles in the forearms and upper arm.

    As far as mobile compressed air, I think the N2/air tanks for airsoft guns has potential.

    I was wondering if the firing mechanism for airsoft guns would make a good firing mechanism for PAMS....the Shadow hand's PAMs are designed for pinpoint accuracy so they use pneumatic valves for every muscle, but airsoft guns operate on pneumatic pistons firing bursts of air, which seems closer to what you'd want for a mitt/punch from a bot arm.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/20/2010 2:06pm at .
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