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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 12:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    I will regret saying this, but....

    W. Rabbit, why don't you bring this to this Sociocide thread
    That thread is not really relevant to my project, AI is not really that important for a "fighting" robot except in the movies. AI is about machines being able to conceptualize ideas and develop their own thought patterns. On the other hand, making a machine adapt/change based on human movement/behavior is completely elementary (the XBOX Kinect does it today with a small camera and some additional logic). The Shadow Hand I posted earlier in the thread is another good example, and it fits in a shoebox.

    I don't have time for more than one web forum these days, and BS.net is a much more appropriate place for my project. But thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading the thread.
  2. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 12:30pm

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    Robot boxing match (human scale) - the white bot is the closest to the Type 1 idea I've seen but these are not made for fighting with or being hit by humans (especially seeing as how easy is was for it to lose it's head). Shock absorbers....going to be a critical component.

    A Type 1 would probably have a fixed punching bag target for a head, but the white robot's arms in the first video ( 2 hinged extensors and PAM actuators) are almost identical to what would be necessary for a sparbot. A type IV would be almost the same design but would have mitts/pads (interchangeable parts?) and could call out combinations or present a target pad the same as a human could.

    And again sparbot I or IV would not be limited to two limbs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwCZu...eature=related

    Robot boxing match (super sized) - This is just funny...imagine this stuff in 10 years, people will pay money to go watch this in big arenas.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FU1q...eature=related

    Robot torso programmed to play rocks/paper/scissors - slow but a good example of humanoid features.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpY9U...eature=related
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/18/2010 12:46pm at .
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 1:58pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    A Type 1 would probably have a fixed punching bag target for a head
    That could work put an accelerometer in it trying to think about what other data inputs would be good to get as well.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 2:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    That could work put an accelerometer in it trying to think about what other data inputs would be good to get as well.
    That Engineering of Sport book is actually a series (up to v7) that is packed with all sorts of wireless sensor setups/measurements (based on real lab/environment data) you can place on pads/targets/people etc, including an entire section devoted to martial arts.

    Edit: Purchased the chapter on Wireless Impact Measurement for Martial Arts for $25, 7 page study of how wireless measurements are going to be integrated into World Taekwondo Federation competitions for point scoring, with pictures and data.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/18/2010 2:39pm at .
  5. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 2:23pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I don't have time for more than one web forum these days, and BS.net is a much more appropriate place for my project. But thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading the thread.
    I don't think it is. If you seriously want to do this take it to a tech/engineering forum. You're not even at the pencil and paper stage so what use are a bunch of martial artists? You what you're aiming for already.

    When people design new Formula 1 cars they keep the needs of the driver in mind but get the majority of the car ready first. At your stage it's not worth getting anyone here involved as the feedbacks irrelevant as it's all just pie in the sky. Nice pie in the sky granted, but it's irrelevant until you have a working model.

    Get the basic tech down first and then get feedback from it's potential users on how to tweak the design to a final model.
  6. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 2:56pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
    I don't think it is. If you seriously want to do this take it to a tech/engineering forum. You're not even at the pencil and paper stage so what use are a bunch of martial artists? You what you're aiming for already.
    I pondered whether to do this, and decided against it for two reasons:

    1 - Tech engineering forums are full of great, smart tech folks who often aren't into fighting sports (hence lots of little robots fighting and lots of HUGE ROBOTS FIGHTING, but relatively no humans fighting robots).

    2 - Bullshido.net has a great collection of scientists, technologists, historians, and other smart people who DO fight, in fact this website kind of bridges the gap between fighter/warrior/scholar and internet geek (and I say that in a good way).

    I'm actually well past the pencil and paper stage, I've sketched a lot and performed 2D physics simulations on how various arms/structures would work. A vast majority of work will have to go into computer modeling, running sims, and tweaking things based on this forum's feedback, positive or negative, before I even pick up a soldering iron.

    If I posted this on Sociocide I'd get a lot of junk from non-martial artists, I don't want that. Robotics forums are great for various subprojects, but I want the overall design to live here, who knows in five years I might be selling these things through Bullshido.
  7. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2010 4:09pm


     Style: 5x5, 5.56mm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're one guy with no real budget or work facilities but carrying a mortgage, family etc, nothings going to happen in 5 years unless you get serious backing and that won't happen wihout a half decent prototype. Unles you have that, all this is all just chat.

    Sococide may be worth a miss but if that's the case, this place certainly isn't for your project. There are some smart guys here but no one that can actually help your plan a long.

    I'm not kicking you in the balls for fun Rabbit but I honestly believe that bashing about ideas with people with no real knowledge of practcal robotics is a waste of your time.

    Take it to dudes that have a working background in this kind of thing, get a real base made and then come back and fine tune it with martial artists input.
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 3:12pm

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    Someone in another thread pointed out that they dress their fighting dummy with protective clothing, and I see no reason why that wouldn't suffice to protect most exposed areas of sparbot. Jacket, mitts, headgear, and some sort of neck guard would probably go a long way towards quelling the impact of shocks to various parts that would expect constant hitting. For sensitive exposed areas that aren't normally hit (but could be), I am thinking of creating layers of padded PVC armor. This would be pretty cheap (maybe $50 in materials for all the kevlar/padding/PVC).

    _____________
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx outer padding (soft shock absorption foam)
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    ============ PVC
    XXXXXXXXXXXX interior padding (kevlar weave $20/yard, pretty cheap)
    OOOOOOOOOO extensors/actuators/tender parts
    XXXXXXXXXXXX
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/19/2010 3:18pm at .
  9. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 5:28pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You can trademark terms that are part of the concept or product. "Apple" is a trademark. "Sparbot" can easily be trademarked, however it may currently be trademarked in New Zealand and requires some diligence on my part.
    Gee, maybe you should get an IP attorney to look into that for you.
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2010 10:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Awesome. I found full design schematics and GREAT PICTURES of SPARBOT in a 2009 ICCCP paper.

    A type IV bot has already been built, and its exactly what I had sketched, except this one uses electrical control instead of pneumatic air muscles. Interesting, since PAMs would make a much more realistic, human feel (and more important, would give way to human strikes better) to the robot...instead they've employed electronics drive and brakes.

    The Design and Control of an Automatic Sport Apparatus (SPARBOT)

    http://icccp.net/proceedings/2009/Pa...CCCP09-063.pdf

    At this stage I'm not sure if I should begin work on a PAM design, or just monitor this one, or start thinking in another direction. Either way, here is the proof of concept everyone was looking for (just not from me, its from those crazy Oceanics!)

    :hitit:
    That is great for something that gets hit. I have been looking at linear actuators and ball screws. The biggest problem I can see is getting the feet per second to match up with that of a punch. I know one can as I have worked on CNC machines with some insane rapids. Also an another thing I am noticing is the power of a punch from a machine would be rather linear compared to the power of a punch by human which looks to me to be more parabolic because of the way weight is shifted.
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