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  1. ADM is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 1:22am


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Australia the women fight without padding ... although they 'may' have the option as opposed to males where they say "no you're not allowed to have that".

    For the record, the fighters (female) that I've trained with or seen at tournaments really are good at fighting and hit hard and can take a hard hit. I was lucky enough to train with someone who came 4th at the world tournament, there's someone in our class right now that I feel can top that record, she just has a good fighting rythym and hits like a truck!
  2. Evergrey is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 3:55am


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, we have a policy at our dojo that women can only be hit in one spot on their solar plexus- nowhere else! I hate it, It sucks. It is unfair in so many ways, and will lead to bad habits, and a lack of toughening in most areas, unfair kumite, etc etc etc. Punching a breast doesn't cause breast cancer! It's been disproven!
    As for making people uncomfortable... grapplers get used to having a man's testes smashed in their face, so... get used to punching a tit. :/

    Outside of class, though, Sensei punches me just like he would punch a man.
  3. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 12:07pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm way more comfortable punching women when they wear some body pad. We went from punching drills to sd the other night and I realized that the 30 year old mom that I was choking and grabbing could do all the "pin the wrists" to the body moves with out me rubbing her tits. I was relieved. It's embarrassing to rub breasts, I enjoy it way too much. Rather not go there.

    In sparring in KK the men probably are like men in all mas; either they go too soft being chauvinists, or they go to hard, being misogynists
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 11/10/2010 12:27pm at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  4. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 12:18pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
    grapplers get used to having a man's testes smashed in their face, so... get used to punching a tit. :/

    Outside of class, though, Sensei punches me just like he would punch a man.
    Oh the gay fisting and kinky Sensei jokes just write themselves after that post.

    You aren't aloud to complain when they start trying to fit them in two at a time now.

    :911flag:


    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  5. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 12:26pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
    Yeah, we have a policy at our dojo that women can only be hit in one spot on their solar plexus- nowhere else! I hate it, It sucks. It is unfair in so many ways, and will lead to bad habits, and a lack of toughening in most areas, unfair kumite, etc etc etc.
    Is this a house rule or is it a standard thing?

    I have never really put any thought to the complexities of a woman in KK progressing through the ranks. Common sense dictates you keep all the rules the same and have some damn tough females in the Org.

    ... I know enough to know that I doubt that is how it is turning out tho. Seriously, do girls have different rules and regs in the Org?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  6. Evergrey is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 2:01pm


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    Is this a house rule or is it a standard thing?

    I have never really put any thought to the complexities of a woman in KK progressing through the ranks. Common sense dictates you keep all the rules the same and have some damn tough females in the Org.

    ... I know enough to know that I doubt that is how it is turning out tho. Seriously, do girls have different rules and regs in the Org?
    It really varies from dojo to dojo, and organization to organization. When I found out about the rules, in our dojo, I polled Kyokushin women all over the world. I found that most allow chest punches, and some require chest padding, but they use the kind that is a sports bra with only padded cups. The concept is that it's like a groin cup. The full chest protectors would be against the spirit of Kyokushin with it's "no padding" policy...

    I can't speak for World Oyama, don't know anything about them. They are a splinter from the Kyokushin style. I know that in their tournaments, women have to wear padding and it's more point than KO. This makes me a sad panda.

    I've seen videos of women fighting in Kyokushin tournaments with nothing but mouth guards, some of them going at it pretty hard. Saw a video of a recent open tournament in The Netherlands where the women were beating each other bloody, just like the men.

    There's a serious misconception about breast impact and breast cancer. In 1910, the British ministry of health or whatever they called it then declared that blunt trauma to the breast resulting in breast cancer was something that a woman could sue her workplace for. That concept carried over for the rest of the century, but it has been found to be false. Sometimes, blunt trauma can cause a hard knot- membranous fatty tissue necrosis can result. For a long time, this was believed to be a cause of breast cancer, but it has now been found that these lumps are benign.

    The actual net result is that a woman goes in to get a mammogram to see if she has cancer, and if she DOES, it tends to get caught earlier. But the blunt trauma is not the cause.

    Also, men have breast tissue. They can get breast cancer. Men get punched in the chest, a lot, in martial arts. I've never heard of a man getting breast cancer because he got punched there a lot. :p

    But the whole "it causes BREAST CANCER!!!111one" thing is used as an excuse a lot, I've noticed.

    There's also the fact that a number of people are uncomfortable touching a woman's breasts, and a number of women are uncomfortable with having their breasts touched. I can understand this, yes. But accidents happen, even when you're only trying to hit that one spot on the solar plexus. I wouldn't advocate a ton of purposeful strikes to the center of the breast, but there's the chest above the breast line, there's the sides, there's the arms, there's the thighs, hell, there's the head, though we aren't supposed to do that in tournaments... Two points on a woman's body that you should try to avoid should NOT, in my opinion, mean that you must avoid her entire body except for that one spot. How is that in any way going to lead to equal training?

    Honestly, I think that if people get down to it and get serious about fighting, they'll eventually no longer be shocked by the possibility of accidentally touching a boobie.

    In martial arts in general, and I know there have been a ton of conversations about this on here already, there's a lot of bias against women. You're right in that there are people who will not hit hard enough, or will hit too hard. I've also noticed that a number of the other women in the dojo won't hit hard and don't want to be hit hard. I don't get it, but not everyone wants to eventually go full contact like I do. But I think that a lot of people just don't take female martial artists seriously.

    But there's also people in my dojo who are willing to give as good as they get. They tend to be the people who are more serious about Kyokushin, and more confident people. I've been working hard to convince people that I am not a delicate porcelain doll that wants to be pampered. I constantly find myself saying "you can hit me. No, REALLY HIT ME. How am I going to learn otherwise?"

    I don't feel like I get a whole lot from tippy-tappy point dancing. It feels more like a two-person kata than actual sparring.

    I spoke last night with one of the instructors about this, and essentially he said, after I stated my case and shot down the breast cancer thing, that it wasn't going to happen in his dojo, though I was going to get hit in other places... He told me that as I was a white belt, they wanted to focus on me learning to tighten my abs so that a strike to the stomach wouldn't make me crumple to the ground. I agree that it's important, but I can't help but think that the male white belts don't have this restriction, so it feels like a placating argument. He said that I would get hit in other places, but I think the unspoken subtext was that when I did, it would be an accident.

    It makes me sad because I think that it means that ultimately, I'll get to a point in my Kyokushin "career" that I will have to move on from this dojo. I love it there and I don't want to do that. But such a restriction, long term, of people only being allowed to strike me in the solar plexus, is going to result in me being an incomplete fighter with bad habits. Then what will happen when I go to an open tournament up in Washington? Or the Netherlands?

    So frustrating.
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 6:20pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just hit them as hard as you can and keep hitting. Try to knock 'em on their asses and try to hurt them. I don't know your rank or experience but I'd wager that the harder you strike the more you'll recieve hard strikes. If you are a colored belt the sparring level is much lower than brown or above, for the most part. I mean there is no rule and it changes from dojo to dojo. In general we tended to go a little easier on most of the women, but we also tended to go easier on 110 pound guys. Most bbs will go down to your level to practice kumite. You want them to go harder? I always tell people that if you want to see a bb's good techniques, hit them hard. Worked for me - as a green I rdhsd a bb's face and got beat up pretty good (he controlled it, but I got the message) and as a n00b bb feeling his oats rndhsd sempai's face (guesting in a dif dojo) and got my rib broke.

    I know you are frustrated, but if you think you are good enough to get hit harder by others then you HAVE to be good enough to hit them hard.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2010 8:36pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the reply Evergrey ( and Pat ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  9. Evergrey is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2010 10:42am


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are welcome, backfistmonkey, and thank you, Pat.

    I'm still a noob, but I'm looking at my training down the line. I want good habits to start now. I want my training and experience to be as solid as the men in my dojo to get, and I firmly believe that you fight how you train.

    Tuesday night I took a bb down to the ground who was playing around with me, not going quite hard enough. A couple of times. I know full well that he could easily take me down if he went at it full force, and we both know that all I'd learn from that is that he can kick my ass. However, I do believe he will dial it up a notch or two next time. I wasn't pulling any dick moves on him, but I think that I demonstrated my seriousness. I reiterate, I'm not a badass! And he could have easily kicked my ass! I learned a lot from the sparring. But a few people there at least know now that I am not a tippy-tappy make it pretty no contact type. Heh.
  10. Kickapoo is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/12/2010 12:43pm

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     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
    You are welcome, backfistmonkey, and thank you, Pat.

    I'm still a noob, but I'm looking at my training down the line. I want good habits to start now. I want my training and experience to be as solid as the men in my dojo to get, and I firmly believe that you fight how you train.

    Tuesday night I took a bb down to the ground who was playing around with me, not going quite hard enough. A couple of times. I know full well that he could easily take me down if he went at it full force, and we both know that all I'd learn from that is that he can kick my ass. However, I do believe he will dial it up a notch or two next time. I wasn't pulling any dick moves on him, but I think that I demonstrated my seriousness. I reiterate, I'm not a badass! And he could have easily kicked my ass! I learned a lot from the sparring. But a few people there at least know now that I am not a tippy-tappy make it pretty no contact type. Heh.
    Did you ask him to up the contact prior to this?

    I have never done KK but in my experience, if I am sparring with someone new or smaller, I tend to err on the side of caution unless they ask. If someone were to just flip out and try sparring like they were fighting for a championship in that situation, I would likely get pissed off.
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