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  1. wetware is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 3:18pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DK, here is the graphic you requested. Obviously, it's not to scale, but the two triangles are pretty well congruent (same angles, so same ratios of side lengths). That particular one would be about equivalent to a quarter inch of sight misalignment when your front and rear sights are 3 inches away from each other. I posted the math earlier, but here it is again...

    Distance to target/(sight length/distance of misalignment)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  2. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 3:41pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My main concern with this experiment is that it seems to leave a lot of room for subjectivity. If the issue is one that's been debated over and over again then it's doubtful that any experiment we try will be conclusive. For example, seeing how a n00b does with a couple of different shooting techniques could tell us which technique could be easier and quicker to learn, but not necessarily better. Which method of aiming is better will still be open to debate even if we do learn new things about the different methods. That said, are we expecting to really come to a concensus or just gather some useful information through these experiments? My thinking is, for the time being, that it might be best to train both for a length of time and figure out what techniques give the best results after a few range trips.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 4:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    My main concern with this experiment is that it seems to leave a lot of room for subjectivity. If the issue is one that's been debated over and over again then it's doubtful that any experiment we try will be conclusive. For example, seeing how a n00b does with a couple of different shooting techniques could tell us which technique could be easier and quicker to learn, but not necessarily better. Which method of aiming is better will still be open to debate even if we do learn new things about the different methods. That said, are we expecting to really come to a concensus or just gather some useful information through these experiments? My thinking is, for the time being, that it might be best to train both for a length of time and figure out what techniques give the best results after a few range trips.
    One experiment isn't really conclusive in a scientific sense anyway; it could still be useful to add a Bullshido driven study on the subject though.
  4. mad_malk is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 4:13pm


     Style: Krav Maga/ Judo noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have reached out to some one I know of to answer some questions that have been posed. here is the list of questions i have asked.
    Your Background for point of reference?
    Thoughts on aimed shooting vs. point shooting?
    Thoughts on targeting?
    How did things end? i.e. Clean shoot, hit rate, Excessive force etc.
    Thoughts on appropriate training.

    I do not know what his answers will be but i think it will be very informative.
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 4:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder also what system is better for the guy that isn't going to drill it often. You know the guy that goes shooting once or twice a year. One might be better for the amateur vs pro and vice verse.
  6. Lord Skeletor is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 4:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    My main concern with this experiment is that it seems to leave a lot of room for subjectivity. If the issue is one that's been debated over and over again then it's doubtful that any experiment we try will be conclusive. For example, seeing how a n00b does with a couple of different shooting techniques could tell us which technique could be easier and quicker to learn, but not necessarily better. Which method of aiming is better will still be open to debate even if we do learn new things about the different methods. That said, are we expecting to really come to a concensus or just gather some useful information through these experiments? My thinking is, for the time being, that it might be best to train both for a length of time and figure out what techniques give the best results after a few range trips.

    As a noob...the best thing you can do is ensure consistency in the most basic skills of pistol handling. You can do this by practicing holster drills, presentation drills, dry firing, ensuring you have a good purchase on the weapon, and a good, stable stance. Your main issue though...is always going to be controlling the trigger. Fortunately, you don't have to rip rounds off constantly to achieve this. You can achieve what you need to achieve with repetitive (and correct) dry firing, which doesn't cost you a damn thing.
  7. wetware is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 4:38pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To add to what Lord Skeletor was saying, you can work on proper trigger pull by putting a pencil in the barrel of your pistol and then dry firing it so the firing pin makes contact with the eraser. This will project the pencil out the barrel. Next, get close to some posterboard say 3 inches or so, or if you don't care about pencil marks, your wall. Try to keep from drawing squiggles with the pencil as it jumps out of the barrel.
  8. mad_malk is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 4:51pm


     Style: Krav Maga/ Judo noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    To add to what Lord Skeletor was saying, you can work on proper trigger pull by putting a pencil in the barrel of your pistol and then dry firing it so the firing pin makes contact with the eraser. This will project the pencil out the barrel. Next, get close to some posterboard say 3 inches or so, or if you don't care about pencil marks, your wall. Try to keep from drawing squiggles with the pencil as it jumps out of the barrel.
    you can do this and tape a 3x5 index card to the wall so your wife doesn't scream at you for messing up her walls. It also helps minimize her muttering something about "the kids" while passing by.
  9. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 5:05pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    One experiment isn't really conclusive in a scientific sense anyway; it could still be useful to add a Bullshido driven study on the subject though.
    I agree. I don't want to discourage running some experiments but I am curious as to what we're all looking to find out. For example, I would like so see what sort of accuracy can be expected when a shooting n00b starts off with point shooting. If we're trying to determine the better method, though, I don't expect much success. However if we can all learn more about the ups and downs of each type I think that will be very beneficial. I do want to discourage the forming of authoritative opinions being formed on the subject after the running of these experiments, though. It might be counterproductive to come to a "this is totally better than that" kind of conclusion.

    That said, Scrapper writes up some really good articles and I don't foresee any blatant subjectivity coming out of all of this.
  10. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/29/2010 5:10pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    To add to what Lord Skeletor was saying, you can work on proper trigger pull by putting a pencil in the barrel of your pistol and then dry firing it so the firing pin makes contact with the eraser. This will project the pencil out the barrel. Next, get close to some posterboard say 3 inches or so, or if you don't care about pencil marks, your wall. Try to keep from drawing squiggles with the pencil as it jumps out of the barrel.
    I've never tried that. I usually just dry fire while pointing at a small object while trying to keep the front sight from straying from it. Also used a laser back when I had one. I'll have to give your method a try. Sounds like a good one.
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