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  1. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 11:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do agree that if you want to go out there and bang heads with other guys who want to go out there and bang heads then knock yourselves out.
    But I also think that everybody has the responsibility to play the role of sheep from time to time. It might be hard to do what they dont want to do but that is just Kimbos left arse cheek. (It ain't right and it ain't fair but that is just the way it is)

    In fact I think you could find just as much pussification in the wolf and sheepdog comunities espesially when it comes to self control.

    "The you cant handle the truth" Look I agree with that in essence but it must be a cultural difference here if you broke the rules to get the job done thats fine but if get caught you cop it sweet.
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 1:22pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Uggh The point of the "You can't handle the Truth" speech is not that he broke the rules to get the job done. It is that the rules don't make any damn sense to a sheepdog. A substandard Marine is in his unit because of sheep rules that "pussified" the requirements. That's the point from a sheepdog perspective. In his head he didn't break any rules that matter because it is a stupid rule that got the dude there in the first place.
    Last edited by WhiteShark; 10/27/2010 1:26pm at .
  3. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 1:29pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Where is "here"?
    In the part of this conversation where our veiws are going to differ on jack Nicolsons speach.
    so here is acually here on this forum at this time.
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 1:32pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TeeHee I meant where are you then I realized your location is a real place. Crazy Australian names.
  5. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 1:36pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Uggh The point of the "You can't handle the Truth" speech is not that he broke the rules to get the job done. It is that the rules don't make any damn sense to a sheepdog. A substandard Marine is in his unit because of sheep rules that "pussified" the requirements. That's the point from a sheepdog perspective. In his head he didn't break any rules that matter because it is a stupid rule that got the dude there in the first place.
    And this is where we differ in opinion I dont think cos I am a sheepdog is any sort of excuse.

    If you remember T Hunter used this one as well.(not as eloquently as Jack of course) and I didn't agree with that either.

    Another extreme example I know.
  6. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 1:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That position only proves (to me) that you're a sheep.
  7. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 1:53pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Which I did say on another post. I just dont think it is such a bad thing.
    This is where I think we have a cultural difference. We really are much more of a follow the rules society. More behind the battler and the worker than the adventurer or the superstar.
  8. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 2:00pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    TeeHee I meant where are you then I realized your location is a real place. Crazy Australian names.
    The strangest thing is we diddn't even have a beach. We had to build one.
  9. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 2:23pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I’ll bet we could start an analogy where there’s three types of people: rocks, papers and scissors. If a number of people put their heads together, I’m sure they could come up with explanations and justifications about what makes you a rock, paper or scissor. Does that mean that society is actually made up of rocks, papers and scissors? Probably not- how can a society as complex as ours be divided into three groups? Hell, you can’t even do that with gender.

    In general, I don’t like the idea of society-wide simple categories like this because they have a history of being awful for everyone involved. For example, in Rwanda the Belgians told the natives that they were two different groups- the Hutus and the Tutsis. They said that the Hutus came from an ancient ruling class (which was fabricated science) and that they should be in charge, and the group that became the Hutus agreed (who wouldn’t?). With that understanding, it was a lot easier for the Belgians to set up a puppet regime for resource extraction. This created a conflict that led to the genocide in Rwanda, and it’s a strategy used by conquering forces all over the world to create a middleman class between colonial resource grabbers and indigenous populations. You could also draw some comparison with Nazi germany- if you were a Jew, you needed a little star to show how you were a member of a particular category. There seemed to be a little of this after September 11, 2001 where you were either a flag waving patriot or you hated America. Dividing society into arbitrary groups never seems to help the unity or society-wide problem solving abilities of a culture. Anyway I seem to be getting more and more off topic so I’ll stop there.

    One of the problems with it is that whether or not someone believes it seems closely tied to where that person fits into the society. If I’m a sheep, I won’t buy the whole sheep/sheepdog/wolf system, and if I’m a Tutsi I won’t buy the “Hutus are the ruling class” one. But if I’m in one of the cool/better/ruling categories, I’m more likely to buy into it. I don’t assign too much intellectual weight to philosophies where how a person feels about it is so closely tied to a person’s social position- I feel a good philosophy about society should transcend the strata, but this isn’t the most solid grounds for validity, since I could probably predict how the upper class and lower classes feel differently about socialism and capitalism.
  10. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2010 4:41pm

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     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is simplistic, but I kind of like the wolf/sheep/sheepdog analogy...

    Its funny because I consider myself a sheepdog , and I have spent plenty of time in the company of 'wolves' when I was mixing with bikers on a regular basis. I think part of the reason I eventually decided that whole lifestyle wasn't for me was because I wasn't enough of an asshole to be a full fledged 'wolf'. I don't think its right to prey upon people who are vulnerable and I don't think that kindness is something to be exploited and viewed as a weakness. Most biker-types do..and while I was able to hold my own amongst them, I was always aware of the fact that there was a distinct difference between myself and the majority of 'them'. Some of them sensed that I wasn't a full-fledged 'wolf' ..and that usually isn't a good thing because with people like that - you automatically become viewed with suspicion unless you truly are a wolf. Despite this,when it comes right down to it there are plenty of sheep and sheepdog types among badasses once the lines are drawn even further..what a fucking overrated way of life that whole 'biker' thing is.
    People dynamics are a strange thing.
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
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