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  1. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 9:02am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaoofJKD View Post
    You post extremely good point but I think you miss out on one specifically. You say there is a limited amount of kicks in Savate, this is not the case I've been training in the art now (among others) for about a year and a half and have found there are more types of kicks in this art than almost any I have ever seen. It's really Muay Thai that is more limited. Consider the different lines at which a Chasse can be used in Savate then all the Fouette kicks coupled with the coup de pied bas then all the revers kicks. It's a veritable plethora of kicks to pick and choose from. And all of the kicks can be used on pretty much any level of attack. One of my favorite is the low line spinning heel hook because it is both devastating and unexpected. There's a reason they refer to savate as foot fencing in some respects.
    No, there are more types of kicks in Muay Thai than in Savate.

    The four "kicks" that you named aren't kicks, but the kickgroups:
    - fouetté = kick with the instep of the foot
    - chassé = kick with the sole of the foot
    - revers = kick with the outside of the foot
    - coup de pied bas = kick with the inside of the foot

    Now these kickgroups combined with the target area:
    - figure (high)
    - median (middle)
    - bas (low)

    make up the kicks.
    These are infact just:
    - a push kick
    - a defensive push kick or check
    - a lowkick
    - a roundhouse kick
    - an inside cresent kick
    - an outside cresent kick
    - a reverse roundhouse kick
    - a 360° spinning kick
    - a back kick
    - a side kick

    Muay Thai as all of these kicks and
    - an axe kick
    - a front kick
    - 45° upwarts roundhouse kick
    - scorpion kick (forward roll with a straight leg)

    + also the heel of the foot can be used as strike zone (but my "Savate" reverse roundhouse and spinning kick have also the heel as strikingzone).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 9:15am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    but savate has those lateral reverse kicks, which are good for...something or other.
  3. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
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    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 9:26am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    but savate has those lateral reverse kicks, which are good for...something or other.
    (painful) sweep kicks

    but they are also legal in Muay Thai. Do one from the clinch and your opponent isn't going to know what took him down (and yet, it also exists in Muay Thai).
    Last edited by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs; 10/14/2010 9:34am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  4. TheTaoofJKD is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 9:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jun Fan Gung Fu, Savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess it's just how I've always felt. With not ability to use a rear leg side kick in Muay Thai (it just doesn't make sense with the stance) and all the different types of each kickgroup (as you have termed them) I have always felt as if the variety is much higher in savate especially when you string kicks together in combination. Just how I've always felt.
  5. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
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    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 10:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaoofJKD View Post
    I guess it's just how I've always felt. With not ability to use a rear leg side kick in Muay Thai (it just doesn't make sense with the stance) and all the different types of each kickgroup (as you have termed them) I have always felt as if the variety is much higher in savate especially when you string kicks together in combination. Just how I've always felt.
    That's because in Savate it has to be 50% boxing, 50% kicking and since clinching is prohibited you are always on the move.

    There is no quota for boxing and kicking in Muay Thai, this combined with the clinch and short distance fighting will make that the boxing becomes more dominant in a fight.

    Both Muay Thai and Savate have the same stance when you aren't kicking or boxing. Namely with your weight in the middle, evenly distributed over the two legs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  6. aiyer is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 3:46pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaoofJKD View Post
    I guess it's just how I've always felt. With not ability to use a rear leg side kick in Muay Thai (it just doesn't make sense with the stance) and all the different types of each kickgroup (as you have termed them) I have always felt as if the variety is much higher in savate especially when you string kicks together in combination. Just how I've always felt.
    I would argue that even though there might be more kicks in the Muay Thai syllabus, when looking at the different kicks that are actually used in the average club, savate would be superior. An axe kick, scorpion kick or even a back kick, might be in the Muay Thai syllabus, but how many clubs do actively train them?
  7. TheTaoofJKD is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 5:05pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jun Fan Gung Fu, Savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendokan View Post
    That's because in Savate it has to be 50% boxing, 50% kicking and since clinching is prohibited you are always on the move.

    There is no quota for boxing and kicking in Muay Thai, this combined with the clinch and short distance fighting will make that the boxing becomes more dominant in a fight.

    Both Muay Thai and Savate have the same stance when you aren't kicking or boxing. Namely with your weight in the middle, evenly distributed over the two legs.
    The weight distribution is the same but the stance in very different. Savates walking stance as the feet pretty close together and the boxing turned making it a very small target while in Muay Thai you have a very squared stance. Also consider the advantage of footwork in savate which Muay Thai greatly lacks another factor that makes them an excellent pairing.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 5:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what I have gotten from this thread is that they seem to compliment each other very well. Just out of curiosity are there any professional fighters who have paired them and how did they do?
  9. TheTaoofJKD is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 5:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jun Fan Gung Fu, Savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    So what I have gotten from this thread is that they seem to compliment each other very well. Just out of curiosity are there any professional fighters who have paired them and how did they do?
    Considering most MMA type fighters will automatically stigmatize Savate and say that it's useless, but that all comes from malinformed bias. Chiek Kongo has indeed trained in Savate and Muay That tho he many not be the top of the ladder when it comes to heavyweights he is still pretty damn sucessful. Most will discount Savate immediately tho, their loss.
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2010 5:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaoofJKD View Post
    Considering most MMA type fighters will automatically stigmatize Savate and say that it's useless, but that all comes from malinformed bias. Chiek Kongo has indeed trained in Savate and Muay That tho he many not be the top of the ladder when it comes to heavyweights he is still pretty damn sucessful. Most will discount Savate immediately tho, their loss.
    Yeah he may not be a "Super Star" but he has a good record 15-6 with 9 of those 15 coming from knock out. He also has the greco-roman thing going for him so his stand up grappling and striking all around are pretty good.
    Even though he has had 3 victories by sub I would say his ground work can certainly use some work especially in comparison to those who are now the "Super Stars".

    I was really thinking along the lines of something more like K-1 vs No holds bar since it is a striking discussion vs a MMA thing. Any other examples?
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