Savate and Muay Thai. Frenemies?

[TheTaoofJKD]

Many people will take the stance that either Muay Thai is better than Savate or vice versa. I am of the belief that these arts are not complete opposites but in fact companions. Given that when trained together they even each other out almost perfectly. Savates speed where Muay Thai has power, the far reaching and accurate strikes of Savate, while Muay Thai holds close range destruction. My academy luckily offers both arts and I capitalize on this and train in both. I believe with both you can have a truly well rounded striking game in all sorts of ranges and have a huge variety of tools to use to baffle your opponents. Anyone else have thoughts on this matter?

[mrbigglesworth]

Unfortunately savate never really gets the attention it deserves. Sure enough though when they had a savate teacher at my university i was impressed by the speed. It puts most tkd and jkd guys to shame. But the techniques themselves seem too loose to be used unless point fighting. Mt and savate=Fucken fast, strong kicks for sure. But like tkd and jkd, i just kinda said meh in terms of appeal

[TheTaoofJKD]

Unfortunately savate never really gets the attention it deserves. Sure enough though when they had a savate teacher at my university i was impressed by the speed. It puts most tkd and jkd guys to shame. But the techniques themselves seem too loose to be used unless point fighting. Mt and savate=Fucken fast, strong kicks for sure. But like tkd and jkd, i just kinda said meh in terms of appeal

I think you're severely underestimating the kicks of savate. You need to keep in mind in using the tip of the shoe it's just like (metaphorically speaking) using a knife. Striking at such a small, focused, and tender area makes for a devastating kick. I could be misinterpreting what you're saying but that's what it seems like.

[MMAMickey]

you could say the same thing about karate, its just the fact that chambered kicks are at a power disadvantage.

I do however like the 2 moves I was shown by a savate guy once. One where you kinda push the thigh above the knee as they come in to push them over, and on crazy ass sweep that managaed to put my huge mate on the floor.

[mrbigglesworth]

New federation called the "f-f-f-f-of-f-ftw!" (French foot fighting federation of france for the win!)

[mrbigglesworth]

You think that'll ever happen? Lol! Like i said it would be a sick combo with mt.just not for everyone, he you can find a place...then by all means kick ass!

[judoist]

It doesn't matter which is better. If you can't beat it, train it.

Someone said that Savate's techs look to loose for full contact. What you're seeing is most likely "Assault" level, where competitiors are point fighting. However, this is just transitional for most competitors.

In this level, technique and precision are valued. Most savate instructors encourage aspiring competitors to compete at this level before they go into "pre combat" (full contact with safety gear) and "combat" (full contact with minimal safety gear).

Whoever said the whole "savate is too loose for full contact" needs to lurk more and post less". Do not confuse the OP.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

Savate:
Pro:
- Three levels of combat: assault (semi-contact), pre-combat (hard contact with gear) and combat (hard contact).
- Full English boxing syllabus integrated
- Kicks are chambered, but designed on speed for power generation, so they are fast
- Constant distancing between boxing range and kick range.
- Boxing range: equal training between distance and in fight
- Strong in long range kicking
- Fast pass since clinching is prohibited
- Nasty (kick) sweeps
Con:
- Only fists, tip of the shoe and instep of the foot
- No clinching, elbows, knees, shins and throws
- Limited type of kicks

Muay Thai:
Pro:
- Elbows, knees, shins and throws
- Power generated kicks
- Fighting at clinching distance
- Strong in short range kicking
- Full kick syllabus
Con:
- Not the full boxing syllabus: bobbing and weaving had to be limited because of elbows and knees
- Instep of the foot is (almost) not used
- While having a bigger syllabus of kicks, mostly the teep, lowkick and 45° roundhouse are used

Train them both, but wisely. Now when to use “generic kickboxing”, Savate or Muay Thai in a fight.

[TheTaoofJKD]

You think that'll ever happen? Lol! Like i said it would be a sick combo with mt.just not for everyone, he you can find a place...then by all means kick ass!

I go to an academy that teaches both Savate and Muay Thai. They're out there just few and far between. They're usually academies linked to Guro Inosanto which is where mine found its origins.

[TheTaoofJKD]

Savate:
Pro:
- Three levels of combat: assault (semi-contact), pre-combat (hard contact with gear) and combat (hard contact).
- Full English boxing syllabus integrated
- Kicks are chambered, but designed on speed for power generation, so they are fast
- Constant distancing between boxing range and kick range.
- Boxing range: equal training between distance and in fight
- Strong in long range kicking
- Fast pass since clinching is prohibited
- Nasty (kick) sweeps
Con:
- Only fists, tip of the shoe and instep of the foot
- No clinching, elbows, knees, shins and throws
- Limited type of kicks

Muay Thai:
Pro:
- Elbows, knees, shins and throws
- Power generated kicks
- Fighting at clinching distance
- Strong in short range kicking
- Full kick syllabus
Con:
- Not the full boxing syllabus: bobbing and weaving had to be limited because of elbows and knees
- Instep of the foot is (almost) not used
- While having a bigger syllabus of kicks, mostly the teep, lowkick and 45° roundhouse are used

Train them both, but wisely. Now when to use “generic kickboxing”, Savate or Muay Thai in a fight.

You post extremely good point but I think you miss out on one specifically. You say there is a limited amount of kicks in Savate, this is not the case I've been training in the art now (among others) for about a year and a half and have found there are more types of kicks in this art than almost any I have ever seen. It's really Muay Thai that is more limited. Consider the different lines at which a Chasse can be used in Savate then all the Fouette kicks coupled with the coup de pied bas then all the revers kicks. It's a veritable plethora of kicks to pick and choose from. And all of the kicks can be used on pretty much any level of attack. One of my favorite is the low line spinning heel hook because it is both devastating and unexpected. There's a reason they refer to savate as foot fencing in some respects.