John Painter's Jiulong Baguazhang "Magnetic Body Skills" Seminar

**Nicko1** · Posted On: 10/20/2010 4:18am

Originally Posted by Dale Dugas

I am rather biased as I am a 3rd year masters degree candidate at New England School of Acupuncture, but healthy skepticism is always good.

The herbs will be absorbed through the skin and the effect the blood.

The blood itself, or the blood vessels? It's just that I can see how the latter could speed up the healing process.

As far as acupuncture goes, well...Something is probably going on. I'm just not convinced that the explanation given has anything to do with it.

I seem to recall reading an article by an acupuncturist (is that right?) who was criticising the system for being almost as opaque to the practicioner as to the patient. He gave the example of "hot liver" as the diagnosis when presented with certain symptoms, which in turn was treated with a particular set of needles in particular points. He was frustrated at the fact that the liver was not in any literal sense "hot", but the treatment would work (ie. symptoms would be alleviated). Is this an accurate picture of acupuncture, or do I have the wrong end of the stick?

Sorry to be nosy, but the flip side to requiring evidence is to be on the lookout for it.

**Mor Sao** · Posted On: 10/20/2010 8:32am

If you are using blood moving herbs you are moving the actual blood from the research that I have done, as well as looking at the chemical research that has been done on herbal medicines of all types.

Acupuncture is still a mystery, and I really have no inclination to prove or disprove it. I am using it to help people with problems.

I had a patient today who was having liver qi issues and specific manifestations related to liver qi problems(not the liver itself), and she really did not believe that I could help her. I treated her and she felt much better, I do not do anything to illicit such a response other than ask her to relax and see what happens.

I am seeing people get results from using specific points and using other adjunct therapies and herbs. What is more important than how, is actually helping people get better.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 10/20/2010 9:00am

This book: Amazon.com: The Web That Has No Weaver : Understanding Chinese Medicine (9780809228409): Ted Kaptchuk: Books: Reviews, Prices & more
has a decent description of modern acupuncture imo.
Reading the two "Forewords" the "Author's Notes" and "Introduction" on the "Look inside" link will perhaps shed some light for those so inclined.

"Chuan Xiong" is a common "blood moving" jao ingredient, for example, and it is being studied in depth, as are many other herbs.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...001&as_sdtp=on

**Pajski** · Posted On: 11/18/2010 10:06pm

Sorry to divert this discussion back to the thread topic, but I just attended John Painter's "Magnetic Body Skills" seminar that was presented in North Carolina last weekend. I've attended his seminars when he presents in NC for the past three years, as well as the past three Gathering (week long seminar) events in NY in June. I started doing this long before I became aware of all the rumors, true or false, surrounding the teacher and such. I'm glad I did, because I probably would have been scared away. I cannot vouch for Painter's past or lineage or anything like that. I can only tell you that the material is great. If he made it up, he's a martial arts genius. I've done external martial arts for the past eight years about (some Pai Lum, some longfist, other stuff) and have learned some taijiquan and other internal stuff from a variety of teachers, and in my opinion Jiulong Baguazhang is very effective and well explained. He doesn't BS with mystical explanations and explains the real reasons for things if he knows them, which I appreciate since I'm a scientist in my day job. Every now and then he'll use a science term in a way that's not technically correct, but he knows more science than any other martial arts teacher I've had. Every teacher I've ever had tries to explain things from a physics perspective and they usually have never studied it at a level higher than high school. While I don't believe Painter has a formal science education, he comes across to me as more well-informed than most.

As to the particular skill of "magnetic touch," I do believe it is effective. It is a very subtle skill that frankly would take decades of training with to get to a level of using it in a real fight. So if an MMA fighter is looking for something to boost their career, that particular skill will probably not do much for them. If you're into martial arts for the long haul, though, it's a neat skill to have in your arsenal for when you're no longer young and pumped up. Younger and stronger people are always going to come along and higher level skills like magnetic touch will be what gives you an edge when you're past your prime.

If you don't believe the stuff is good, just go to a seminar. There's no need to go around challenging people. If you go and you don't like it, fine, but don't judge it without tasting it.

Happy training to you all,
Jason

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/18/2010 10:52pm

Did you read the thread or just spam your post? No one here challenged anybody so, your implied admonishment is posted on the wrong website.

What you are addressing occurred on another forum and someone expected us to jump all over Dale. If you read the thread, people defended Dale's actions and condemned the thread starter actions.

Just because we all don't see eye to eye doesn't mean we can't respect a differing opinions.

Please go to the right website and post this non-informative review there....Thank you.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 11/18/2010 11:55pm

Dale,

Received the Tiger Exits the Forrest. Thanks!

Looking forward to using it on the hands and shins when needed.

Questions

(1) Do you recommend this for application to fresh ear injuries to help alleviate blood pooling/hardening? Understanding that it is not for inside the ears, but the damaged capillaries.

If so, how do apply?

(2) Gout. I have it. It doesn't flare often but there are times I've dreamed of sawing off my big toe. Given that this is from high uric acid content in the blood, have you any knowledge of jow application to treat gout once an onset has occurred?

If so, how do apply?

.....for the record....

Dale was away at John Painter's seminar when I ordered the dit jow. He advised me he was sending a second bottle free of charge due to my having to wait ten days. Be skeptic if you will, but don't doubt his integrity and all around good heart.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 11/19/2010 4:20am

Originally Posted by hungryjoe

Dale was away at John Painter's seminar when I ordered the dit jow. He advised me he was sending a second bottle free of charge due to my having to wait ten days. Be skeptic if you will, but don't doubt his integrity and all around good heart.

Hell, I insist you be skeptical, but yeah integrity and good will are in Dales hand( in spades ) for sure.

Doesn't the Tiger Exits the Forest smell great?

Did any bullies or skeptics make it to the seminar? I am VERY curious as to what was taught and how it worked out for them.

**Mor Sao** · Posted On: 11/19/2010 7:48am

Originally Posted by hungryjoe

Dale,

Received the Tiger Exits the Forrest. Thanks!

Looking forward to using it on the hands and shins when needed.

Questions

(1) Do you recommend this for application to fresh ear injuries to help alleviate blood pooling/hardening? Understanding that it is not for inside the ears, but the damaged capillaries.

If so, how do apply?

You can apply the medicine after the initial swelling has gone down. Most people will ice injuries for 24 hours and then use the liniment. Apply it twice a day. I use a little cotton ball with liniment on it to apply to the ears.

(2) Gout. I have it. It doesn't flare often but there are times I've dreamed of sawing off my big toe. Given that this is from high uric acid content in the blood, have you any knowledge of jow application to treat gout once an onset has occurred?

If so, how do apply?

Apply it when you are having attacks on the areas that are affected. Rub it in twice a day. Will help to move blood through the affected area and help to reduce the flareup. My old man has used it to help with the pain and stiffness that accompanies gout.

.....for the record....

Dale was away at John Painter's seminar when I ordered the dit jow. He advised me he was sending a second bottle free of charge due to my having to wait ten days. Be skeptic if you will, but don't doubt his integrity and all around good heart.

I was away in Texas training with my teacher at Founders Day which is the celebration of the system of martial arts my teachers teaches. Being a one man store, I want to compensate people who have to wait for me to get the products they ordered out to them.

Basic business model really, give the best product at the best price with the best service.

My own seminar is coming up in December. And we are going to have a great time. Hopefully some doubters will come see what my teacher or myself can do.

Thanks for the kind words, brothers.