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  1. blood riot iori is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 3:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Looking for critique from serious fighters on my routine.

    Without going into too much detail, as i mentioned in my other thread, i'm fighting a plethora of injuries, none of which are at any point where "rest" is going to help them anymore :( (i was a dumb kid and worked through them too much, so the ones that bother me still are going to regardless), but anyways enough ranting. I'm looking to get serious again into training, and while i'm not training for a fight, i want to train like i AM preparing for one (i like that type of training), so here's the routine i'm working off of atm.


    Monday:
    A.M. stretching, very light shadow boxing
    P.M. kickboxing and mma skills and cardio
    P.M. Late: high rep bodyweight exercises, total gym work, shotokan skills.

    Tuesday:
    A.M. stretching, gym in early afternoon (doing 300 workout as well as hitting back and triceps specifically)
    P.M. shotokan skills, shadow boxing
    P.M. Late: high rep bodyweight exercises, total gym work, shotokan skills if time.

    Wednesday:
    A.M. stretching, very light shadow boxing
    P.M. very intense cardio and mma skills
    P.M. Late: high rep bodyweight exercises, total gym work, shotokan skills.

    Thursday:

    REPEAT TUESDAY, only difference is hitting chest and biceps after 300 workout.

    Friday:
    A.M. shotokan and stretching
    P.M. Late: high rep bodyweight movements, shotokan skills.

    Saturday:
    A.M. very intense cardio and mma skills, gym afterwords hitting 300 workout and shoulders and arms
    P.M. (generally take saturday night off)

    Sunday:

    only work i do sunday is at night which includes the shotokan work, high rep bodyweight, and w/e else i feel like doing.


    THINGS TO KNOW!*

    - i can not train at my shotokan dojo anymore (too detailed of a story) so i have to do it myself at home
    - mma skills also include work on heavy bags, ground fighting, stand up, basically anything you can think of would go into this category.
    - generally for the bodyweight work i break up pullups and pushups into 1 day, and chinups and tricep work the second day, as well as mixing in legs if they aren't fried from earlier in the day.

    Anyways that's about all i can think of atm to tell you, i'd appreciate any input on this, i'm probably going to start shadowboxing a bit outside at night since it's getting so cold out and i love the fall air when i'm working out.
  2. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 3:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're still in high school, yes?

    1: The 300 workout isn't a workout. It's a fitness test developed by Gym Jones to test the fitness levels of the actors AFTER following the Gym Jones training (similar to crossfit). Stop training it as a workout, as it's just going to fry you out.

    2: Stop focusing so much on your chest an arms. You say you want to train like a fighter, but that's training like a stupid pretty boy. You're neglecting the BIGGEST muscles in your body (legs and back) and OVERDEVELOPING the chest, which is going to lead to reptitive motion shoulder injuries as a result of poor internal rotation vs external rotation.

    3: What are you doing for your high rep bodyweight stuff? There is no way for anyone to objectively evaluate your training with vauge info. We need sets, reps, and movements.

    4: You are training way too much, and doing it poorly. You can get away with this because you are young, but it's still not your best bet as you don't have near the work capacity to really benefit from this. It's going to lead to injury and burnout at best.


    If you're going to train martial arts 7 days a week, you're going to need to limit your resistance training to 1-2 times a week tops, and same with the cardio. Even with that limitation, you need an incredibly awesome diet and rest protocol.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  3. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 6:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You say this.
    Quote Originally Posted by blood riot iori View Post
    I'm looking to get serious again into training, and while i'm not training for a fight, i want to train like i AM preparing for one (i like that type of training), so here's the routine i'm working off of atm.
    And then you say this.

    Monday:
    A.M. stretching, very light shadow boxing
    P.M. kickboxing and mma skills and cardio
    P.M. Late: high rep bodyweight exercises, total gym work, shotokan skills.

    [etc...]
    which tells me you know nothing about preparation for full contact fights.
    Also, what do you mean by 'shotokan skills'? Kata?

    THINGS TO KNOW!*

    - i can not train at my shotokan dojo anymore (too detailed of a story) so i have to do it myself at home
    - mma skills also include work on heavy bags, ground fighting, stand up, basically anything you can think of would go into this category
    How are you training MMA?
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  4. blood riot iori is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 8:08pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    You're still in high school, yes?

    1: The 300 workout isn't a workout. It's a fitness test developed by Gym Jones to test the fitness levels of the actors AFTER following the Gym Jones training (similar to crossfit). Stop training it as a workout, as it's just going to fry you out.

    2: Stop focusing so much on your chest an arms. You say you want to train like a fighter, but that's training like a stupid pretty boy. You're neglecting the BIGGEST muscles in your body (legs and back) and OVERDEVELOPING the chest, which is going to lead to reptitive motion shoulder injuries as a result of poor internal rotation vs external rotation.

    3: What are you doing for your high rep bodyweight stuff? There is no way for anyone to objectively evaluate your training with vauge info. We need sets, reps, and movements.

    4: You are training way too much, and doing it poorly. You can get away with this because you are young, but it's still not your best bet as you don't have near the work capacity to really benefit from this. It's going to lead to injury and burnout at best.


    If you're going to train martial arts 7 days a week, you're going to need to limit your resistance training to 1-2 times a week tops, and same with the cardio. Even with that limitation, you need an incredibly awesome diet and rest protocol.
    No, i'm actually 24, i've just been unable to train seriously for a few years due to freak accidents causing me some rather unpleasant injuries.

    1. I'm aware of that, i know it's a fitness test, but it makes for one hell of a tough workout too. What would you suggest instead of doing this?

    2. Um..i only listed hitting chest 1 time directly in that workout if i recall, which would be on thursday. I should note that i was doing arms 1 day heavy during the week for each, and then on saturday i was going for higher rep endurance work. Back is hit directly during tuesday, and it's hit a little bit every day and night between the 300 and the bodyweight work at home.

    3. What i was doing originally was working my way up to a certain rep number. For example, i was doing pullups and pushups one night, and chinups and tricep work the next night, repeating the numbers. So for example, i would do 80 pullups, and 220 pushups. Next day i would do 80 chinups and 200 various tricep movements. The following time i did pullups and pushups, i would do 82 and 222 respectively, and repeat this for chinups and triceps. I did this until i got up to 100 pullups and chinups and 250 pushups and tricep movements on their respective nights. I would break these up into as many small sets as it took, focusing on overall volume as opposed to a specific number of reps per set, as some nights i could do 6 pullups in a row, others i could do 10. Hope that helps.

    4. Which leads me to the reason i came on here. In the past i've only done weights and shotokan training, and i wanted to step it up, so i wanted to know what i should be doing to maximize results, hence asking you guys for help :) I used to do bodybuilding before i got injured, and i have no problem looking like a "pretty boy" lol, i just want to maximize my training in the martial arts as well. Again i've not trained in this manner before, so i wanted to know the best way to go about it, hence why i'm asking you guys for help.


    To MMAMickey:

    as i just explained to Emevas, i have not done this kind of training in the past, shotokan was the only style i've trained in and that was for self defense purposes, so i could get away with training however i want, i got my speed and punching power up to absurd levels before i got hurt, because i wasn't really working alot with other people, and the only time i'd be hitting someone hard was if they were attempting to hurt me or rob me. Again, that's why i'm on here, to get help from people who know what they're doing, since i do not :D

    Shotokan skills would be exactly the same thing that any fighter from any style would practice, the specific movements and techniques derived within that style, which would be working reverse punches, jabs, elbows, blocks, knees, kicks and kata yes.
  5. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 8:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, i'm actually 24, i've just been unable to train seriously for a few years due to freak accidents causing me some rather unpleasant injuries.

    1. I'm aware of that, i know it's a fitness test, but it makes for one hell of a tough workout too. What would you suggest instead of doing this?


    A fitness test is not a workout. It is a test. That's my point. I would simply drop it. If you want to do the actual routine that the 300 actors were using, look up Gym Jones or do Crossfit.



    2. Um..i only listed hitting chest 1 time directly

    Exactly, now compare that to every other bodypart. Why are you emphasizing your chest and arms compared to your legs and back? The chest serves so little benefit compared to the chest and back.


    3. What i was doing originally was working my way up to a certain rep number. For example, i was doing pullups and pushups one night, and chinups and tricep work the next night,

    What is tricep work? You need to state what you're actually doing here.

    repeating the numbers. So for example, i would do 80 pullups, and 220 pushups.

    This is an unbalanced pushing and pulling volume.



    4. used to do bodybuilding before i got injured

    I have a hard time believing this really. What level of shows did you compete in?

    Really dude, if you want to train like a fighter, go join a fight gym and do what the coach tells you to do.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. Kickapoo is offline
    Kickapoo's Avatar

    Sick double leg.

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    Perrineville, New Jersey
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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 10:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Listen to what Emevas is saying.

    What direct benefit do you think having strong arms or a strong chest is going to give you? I have trouble determining because your style field lists 'Shotokan' but still. You want a strong core, back, and legs. That's what you need. If you have an option to train arms or legs, train your legs. Chances are, whatever work your arms or chest need will be met in your classes.
  7. alex is offline
    alex's Avatar

    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 10:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you want to train like a fighter? im a successful fighter and i have a secret for you-

    do what your coach tells you to do. if you dont have a coach you arent training like a fighter. period.

    also, if you are training like you are going to have a fight then i hope you are doing a cyclic trainnig style, because you only train like that for 6ish weeks leading up to a fight.
  8. blood riot iori is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 11:05pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    No, i'm actually 24, i've just been unable to train seriously for a few years due to freak accidents causing me some rather unpleasant injuries.

    1. I'm aware of that, i know it's a fitness test, but it makes for one hell of a tough workout too. What would you suggest instead of doing this?


    A fitness test is not a workout. It is a test. That's my point. I would simply drop it. If you want to do the actual routine that the 300 actors were using, look up Gym Jones or do Crossfit.



    2. Um..i only listed hitting chest 1 time directly

    Exactly, now compare that to every other bodypart. Why are you emphasizing your chest and arms compared to your legs and back? The chest serves so little benefit compared to the chest and back.


    3. What i was doing originally was working my way up to a certain rep number. For example, i was doing pullups and pushups one night, and chinups and tricep work the next night,

    What is tricep work? You need to state what you're actually doing here.

    repeating the numbers. So for example, i would do 80 pullups, and 220 pushups.

    This is an unbalanced pushing and pulling volume.



    4. used to do bodybuilding before i got injured

    I have a hard time believing this really. What level of shows did you compete in?

    Really dude, if you want to train like a fighter, go join a fight gym and do what the coach tells you to do.

    1. i will do just that, thank you.

    2. well what i was getting at was when doing the 300 workout i was hitting everything each time i worked out, and i was hitting back and triceps the one day, chest and biceps the other day, and shoulders and arms (high rep instead of heavy) the next. Legs were covered in the 300 workout, in my bodyweight work, during mma classes, and in shotokan lol, they weren't being neglected but i see what you're saying.

    3. not really. Show me someone who can only do the same number of push movements that they can of pulling movements when dealing with bodyweight, and i'll show you a nude picture of jessica alba. Unless someone is absurdly good at pullups and chinups, i can't possibly see them being able to do the same number that they could do of pushups and dips for example.

    as for what i've been doing for triceps, mainly diamond pushups both inclined and normal, and chair dips (remember this is at home, so i have no dip station here), generally doing an equal number of each.

    4. you can believe it or not, it makes no difference to me. I didn't say i was a professional body builder, i just said i did body building, as in i used to lift specifically for that, to gain muscle and size, then i got into shotokan and supplemented that with weights.

    I guess i'm having a difficult time with what i want to do. I want to train the fighting aspect like i used to for shotokan but do it for what i'm doing now as well :/ but i also want to keep a very muscular body and get back what i've lost in my long absence from serious training.

    Guess i should have been more specific on some points though, i appologize.

    Kickapoo:

    well i guess one of the aspects i'm going for is aesthetics. Not to say that 99% of fighters aren't in amazing condition, because they are, but i don't really wanna look like BJ Penn or Kenny Florian for example. Again they are in fine shape, but that's not the look i'm going for nor have ever wanted.

    The other is i just flat out like looking big. That's something i've always had to my advantage and it's something i don't particularly want to lose. I don't plan on looking like arnold any time soon, but someone like Machida build wouldn't be out of the question (infact it's less then what i DID have, though at the time i wasn't training in this manner as i mentioned many times).

    Lastly...i'm a gym rat lol, grew up that way, gonna stay that way, no matter what else i attempt to do.

    I'll put it this way, i'd love to be able to FIGHT and do the things my coach can do, like my coach can, but i'd sure as hell never wanna look like he does, if that makes sense.


    Alex:

    i do have a coach, like i said i started mma and i did that by joining an MMA gym.

    My main "combat" aspects always have been and always will be self defense vs. combat sports, that's just how i've always done it and likely always will (blame the shotokan on that lol). But what i want to do is get into the condition a fighter is in. I guess that's what i'm having a hard time with, balancing out a routine that's going to help me accomplish all the goals i have at the same time, or even 1 followed by the other, i'm just not really sure how to go about it.

    I guess i just see things from a different light, it's hard to put into words exactly what i'm trying to do, and i'm not trying to start any arguments or put anyone down so sorry if anything i'm saying comes off that way, i'm just genuinely here for help, i just want to explain my thought process as we discuss :)

    Also Alex, so you're saying i should do different types of training for certain periods of time? So kinda similar to how you'd do for body building, where you'd bulk for a period of time then cut, etc etc? Never really thought of that in the sense of training for this type of thing.
  9. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 11:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    3. not really.

    Yes really. The numbers don't lie.

    My point is you should get on a structured plan rather than just freewheeling it.

    as for what i've been doing for triceps, mainly diamond pushups both inclined and normal, and chair dips (remember this is at home, so i have no dip station here), generally doing an equal number of each.

    Yeah, this is just more pushing with minimal pulling.

    4. you can believe it or not, it makes no difference to me. I didn't say i was a professional body builder, i just said i did body building, as in i used to lift specifically for that, to gain muscle and size, then i got into shotokan and supplemented that with weights.

    That's not bodybuilding, it's simply lifting for size. Bodybuilding refers specifically to the practice of bodybuilding, which is sculpting the body in terms of the ideal proportions precribed by bodybuilding to include, size, balance, symmetry, flow, definition and conditioning. It's one of the more abused terms in training, right up there with "weightlifting" when referring to weight training.

    For future reference, what you engaged in was weight training, not bodybuilding.


    As you've stated, you've got way too many goals going on at once.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  10. Kickapoo is offline
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    Sick double leg.

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 11:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well then you were misleading. What you should have said was 'I want to look like a bodybuilder but be in shape like a fighter', to which I offer the following: if you figure it out, let me know.
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