Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    966
    Style
    Bowie
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Early forms of the Double Leg takedown

    Like the subj says. It's not modern, it's "antique" sources.















    (Mods, please let this run for 24 hours or so and then move it the Western Martial Arts forum. - thanks)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    444
    Style
    ukemi & tapping out
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The last two remind me of how some Judoka to morote-gari.

  3. #3
    Conde Koma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Oakland, CA (East Bay Area)
    Posts
    2,247
    Style
    Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so when did people start moving towards the penetration step version? i mean, i guess this version could work, but there's a reason we're supposed to lift boxes with our legs and not our backs.

  4. #4
    Odacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,632
    Style
    Bits and pieces
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah that's some shocking technique alright, we've come a long way since then.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    966
    Style
    Bowie
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess View Post
    The last two remind me of how some Judoka to morote-gari.
    IMS, the instructional text on the last two include driving the head into the gut to act as a lever, pushing him against the pull on the legs.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    966
    Style
    Bowie
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    so when did people start moving towards the penetration step version? i mean, i guess this version could work, but there's a reason we're supposed to lift boxes with our legs and not our backs.
    There's lots of speculation on why it was done this way instead of how it is taught now.

    The two most popular theories are:
    1) Our understanding of best/most-efficient mechanics on the technique was under-developed and we just hadn't yet discovered how effective we could make it if we included the penetration step and knee-down technique.

    2) We deliberately didn't do the penetration and knee-down in order to not damage our own knees/legs/etc. because the surfaces we were wrestling on were far less forgiving.

    There are supporting arguments for each, but it's all speculation and I'm not sure exactly how much it should, if at all, impact or inform on modern technique. We shape our arts to fit our physical and social environment, both of which have changed in the last century since the most recent of the above examples.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,228
    Style
    Judo, Sub wrestling
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If people are standing really upright and aren't quick with the sprawl like most modern grapplers/wrestlers are, the "leg dive" version can work well - which is why the bent-over morote gari can work in Judo.

    The posture of wrestlers has changed a lot, and the modern level-changing double leg developed due to this change in posture (or the other way around?)

  8. #8
    Whacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,293
    Style
    jits da variedade brasile
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation View Post
    If people are standing really upright and aren't quick with the sprawl like most modern grapplers/wrestlers are, the "leg dive" version can work well - which is why the bent-over morote gari can work in Judo.

    The posture of wrestlers has changed a lot, and the modern level-changing double leg developed due to this change in posture (or the other way around?)
    Which is another great lead-in question. When/how did we start to see the sprawl really develop? I'd love to see some historical background on that as well.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    966
    Style
    Bowie
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
    Which is another great lead-in question. When/how did we start to see the sprawl really develop? I'd love to see some historical background on that as well.
    I've seen the sprawl (as a defense against leg grabs) illustrated in Medieval manuals.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk

  10. #10
    Whacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,293
    Style
    jits da variedade brasile
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    I've seen the sprawl (as a defense against leg grabs) illustrated in Medieval manuals.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    My google-fu is weak today. Do you remember which ones you saw them in?

    Edit - This might be getting us too far off topic, if ya'll think so then tell me and I'll be quiet.

Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO