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  1. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2010 11:28pm


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Early forms of the Double Leg takedown

    Like the subj says. It's not modern, it's "antique" sources.















    (Mods, please let this run for 24 hours or so and then move it the Western Martial Arts forum. - thanks)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  2. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 12:34am


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The last two remind me of how some Judoka to morote-gari.
  3. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 4:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so when did people start moving towards the penetration step version? i mean, i guess this version could work, but there's a reason we're supposed to lift boxes with our legs and not our backs.
  4. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 5:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah that's some shocking technique alright, we've come a long way since then.
  5. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 9:27am


     Style: Bowie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess View Post
    The last two remind me of how some Judoka to morote-gari.
    IMS, the instructional text on the last two include driving the head into the gut to act as a lever, pushing him against the pull on the legs.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  6. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 9:33am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    so when did people start moving towards the penetration step version? i mean, i guess this version could work, but there's a reason we're supposed to lift boxes with our legs and not our backs.
    There's lots of speculation on why it was done this way instead of how it is taught now.

    The two most popular theories are:
    1) Our understanding of best/most-efficient mechanics on the technique was under-developed and we just hadn't yet discovered how effective we could make it if we included the penetration step and knee-down technique.

    2) We deliberately didn't do the penetration and knee-down in order to not damage our own knees/legs/etc. because the surfaces we were wrestling on were far less forgiving.

    There are supporting arguments for each, but it's all speculation and I'm not sure exactly how much it should, if at all, impact or inform on modern technique. We shape our arts to fit our physical and social environment, both of which have changed in the last century since the most recent of the above examples.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  7. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 12:52pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If people are standing really upright and aren't quick with the sprawl like most modern grapplers/wrestlers are, the "leg dive" version can work well - which is why the bent-over morote gari can work in Judo.

    The posture of wrestlers has changed a lot, and the modern level-changing double leg developed due to this change in posture (or the other way around?)
  8. Whacker is offline
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    Pulling mount since '09

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 1:01pm


     Style: jits da variedade brasile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation View Post
    If people are standing really upright and aren't quick with the sprawl like most modern grapplers/wrestlers are, the "leg dive" version can work well - which is why the bent-over morote gari can work in Judo.

    The posture of wrestlers has changed a lot, and the modern level-changing double leg developed due to this change in posture (or the other way around?)
    Which is another great lead-in question. When/how did we start to see the sprawl really develop? I'd love to see some historical background on that as well.
  9. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 1:53pm


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
    Which is another great lead-in question. When/how did we start to see the sprawl really develop? I'd love to see some historical background on that as well.
    I've seen the sprawl (as a defense against leg grabs) illustrated in Medieval manuals.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  10. Whacker is offline
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    Pulling mount since '09

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2010 1:58pm


     Style: jits da variedade brasile

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    I've seen the sprawl (as a defense against leg grabs) illustrated in Medieval manuals.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    My google-fu is weak today. Do you remember which ones you saw them in?

    Edit - This might be getting us too far off topic, if ya'll think so then tell me and I'll be quiet.
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