Posted On:10/08/2010 8:55pm
Originally Posted by jnp
My go to takedown in H.S. wrestling was a cross body arm drag to fireman's carry or kata guruma which is almost exactly what is pictured there. The only difference being that I grab my opponent's tricep with my arm above the plane of my shoulders. In other words, my arm is in the Americana, rather than the Kimura position like in the photograph.
When you pull one of his arms across his body before you enter for the throw your opponent can't pancake you back into the crucifix position. See photo again.
Sounds like a good one, alright.
Pictures like these and the "Origins of grappling" thread cause me to wonder how many times people have rediscovered throwing and grappling techniques throughout history.
Seems like about every third generation or so. ;)
Peace favor your sword,
Posted On:10/08/2010 9:05pm
Originally Posted by Spungdeeper
Fabian von Auerswald has a single leg take-down and a fireman's carry as well. I can't seem to get the image from the pdf to copy though. cuz I tarded.
Plates 12, 22, 38, 40, 42, 45, 52, 57, 65, 72 all operate from some sort of leg grab.
But I think you're thinking of either 52 or 72.
Peace favor your sword
Posted On:10/10/2010 6:26am
Style: WMA Lichtenauer Longsword
Looks more like a fireman's carry to me.
But since I'm here, and it's about all I can contribute to the discussion:
Posted On:10/10/2010 11:11am
Style: aikido, medieval fencing
That from the goliath with is a early 16th cent almost verbartim copy of the Von Dantzig manuscript (1450 ish).
I think that the fireman carry is the second Auf ston in ringeck.
As well there is a few tenchi nage like movement that do attack the leg.
Das ander vff ston.
The second ston
Item, bewyßt dein man ain obern griff damitt, so bück daß haupt imvnder die brüst, vnd züch in nach dir; vnd fall nider vff den ruck, vnd beugdine kny, so du höchst magst, vnd gryff im die griff zwischen den bain, mittwelcher hand du magst, vnnd wurff in überdich. Vnd biß schnell vff in, vndthu ain vnderhalden, welches dir eben ist oder werden mag.
Item, should your man show a grip from above, stoop the head in under the tits and twist him towards you and drop down onto the back and bend the knee so that you may raise. Grab him between the legs with whatever hand you may and throw him over you. And pounce quickly onto him and make an under hold whatever it is already there or that may develop.
The picture from the initial post called “leg hold” is what I understand to be the 1st bone/leg breaker at the leg
There are two breaks at the leg
Begryff im sin bain mitt baiden henden an, mitt der ainen hand ober demenckel, mitt der andern an das kny. Das gät dar, alß der erst bainbruch.
Grab him at the leg with both/either gips/hands, with one hand over the ankle and the other upon the knee. It goes there as the first break at the leg.
Posted On:10/10/2010 11:35am
This is what I have found in the Ringeck
The seconde bone breaker at the leg.
Begreyff jm ain bain ober dem anckel mitt baiden henden, vnd ruck imdas über die achsel, so brüchst du im das bain.
Grab him with either/both hands/grip at the leg above the ankle, and turn/move that over the shoulder/armpit so you break his leg
Gib jm zu fessen also, daß du das kündest brechen jo. Wenn er dich nun gefasst hat vnder den armen an der statt, druckt er dich an in: darnach stat och sin syn, daß er dich will vffheben mitt den armen. Soltdu nider schweben in vnder daß kny zefassen. In sinem trucken ste wol mitt hassen; jmdas haupt über den ruck mitt bayden armen du mitt zuch. Also wirfest duden starcken man mitt diner schwachait vff die ban.
let him settle in even if you could avoid it. When he now seize you under the arms at the stand/situation, presses he you towards him. With that stand or be his that he will lift you (uf heben= in hone heben) with the arms. You are to waft (float wavy motion) down and tie up is knee . At his pressure (push or pull) stand-up completely with speed, (Jm=Im=in deme=in dem) with that wretch (Zuchen) his head over the back with both/either arms. Like that a weaker man can throw a stronger one onto the ground.
è Create a point of resiance grab the leg to throw back ward
Ain ander stuck.
Zuo dem ersten mal mörck nun: wenn du mitt ainem luffest zu, vnd er ochdie baide arm zucket mitt gantzem lyb vnd (67 r)zucket, so lauff an in mittder lincken sytten. zwer vmb sinenhalß zu Den lincken arm lass schnell gleyten die hand, die rechte zwischen sin bain bekant, vnd stürtz in über daßhaüpt: darmitt wirt er bedaupt.
For the first time mark now: when you and another run at each other, and he Shrug/jerk/lunges with both arms and his body. So move at him in with the left side. Let the left arm quickly glide so to strike (with the hand)(zu hand= zu handen) across (zwer=twer=quer, schräge) around (umb=umbe=um) his neck. The right finds between his legs and you throw him over the head. With that he will be stunned (bedaupt= betaupt)
=> sort of kaiten nage but garbing the leg instead of the head and the arm
Ain ander stuck.
Mitt follem lauff gryff im sin rechte hand mitt diner lincken. Tück lauff zujm begant durch sinen arm gar schnelle. Mitt behendem lauff mach dir aingefelle: nym in by dem schenkel faste - doch sin hand halt veste! Vnd setzin vff daß haupte sin, nach allem willen din.
With a full step garb his right hand with your left. Bend/dip yourself (tucken,tücken= sich beugen, neigen) running/stepping at him going (begant=begehen) very quickly across his arm. With an agile step make him fall. Seize/take/get into) him the thigh link (behind the knee, top of the hips)- With his hand secured! And send him on his head as you see fit. (According to all your will)
ètenchi nague-ish : tenchi nague start and then you grab the leg. You step on your left side as you grab his right hand and press it down to unbalance him and take the legs at the knee or close to the hips.
Wilt du mitt ainem ringen zu lauffen, so schluß bayd arm über din brust;vnd stos in für den halß. Damitt bück dich, vnd griff in by dem bain vnder (70 r ) den waden mitt baiden henden, vnd wurff in überdich.
When you are coming to wrestling with another. So bring both arms across/above your chest and move/strike for the neck. With that stoop (you bending forward) or bend with that (you bending forward) and grab the leg under the calve with both/eithert and throw him over/across you.
Ob dich hinder jn ain begrifft jn der mitt, so nym sines fingers war, des zaigers an der obresten hand. Vnnd wend dich vmb, vnd volg hinder denman. Darmitt tryb ain ringen, dar nach din bestes ist. Also thu oben vm boch mitt dem finger: daß haiset ain lern bruch.
If you are grabbed (begrifft =begreift) from behind in the middle, so takes his finger, the index at the highest-most hand and twist/turn towards you, and follow under the man. With that drive execute a break, the best according to the situation, thus do (thu=tun) at the top fold with the finger that is means one learnt break (not a leg grab as it is a sankio projection but the second defence a grab from behind is
Den andern Bruch.
Another break (as in a second break)
Wend dich ein wendig vmb, vnd tritt mitt baiden füssen nahent sinenfüssen, vff welche sytten du wilt. Vnd begriffe im daß nechste bain ober demkny (70 v) mitt baiden henden. Last er dich nitt, so wirff in vff das haupt.
Wind yourself towards one side, and step with both feet close by his feet, onto whatever side you wish. And grab (begreifen=ergrifer) him by the nearest leg above the knee with both/either hands, he hardly burden you so drop (wirf auf= aufwerfen) him onto the head
Counter to the counter of hip throw (lead in with hips)
Item, wann ainer hinder dich stät vnd will dir das erst stuck brechen, sobück dich hindersich, sam du hindersich wollest fallen, begriff im mitt derlincken hand sin linck bain, vnd rucks im übersich: so wirffst du jn.
Item, when one stands behind you and is about to break the first piece, so stoop behind him as if you were falling /going completely (wollest=wolle) behind him, grab his left leg with the left arm and trurn him over himself: so you throw him down
è Counter to the counter of the piece above
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