Eastern Dragon Taekwondo Federation Hong Kong (Farm Road Branch)

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 4:49am

Lets start with the two most obvious and then move on from there. Keep in mind this is not personal. It is a contradiction between what you wrote, the scores you gave, and the guidelines.

1. You said no weapons training but you gave it an 8 ...

2.You are discussing breaking demos as if they have ANYTHING to do with effective striking. Which shows your ignorance of what "effective" striking is. If you are sparring under WTF rules it is not full contact.

**Katriona1992** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 5:14am

Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey

Lets start with the two most obvious and then move on from there. Keep in mind this is not personal. It is a contradiction between what you wrote, the scores you gave, and the guidelines.

1. You said no weapons training but you gave it an 8 ...

2.You are discussing breaking demos as if they have ANYTHING to do with effective striking. Which shows your ignorance of what "effective" striking is. If you are sparring under WTF rules it is not full contact.

I agree this is nothing personal (I am not pissed or anything and I do hope you aren't either). Rather, thanks for taking the time to correct me! :happy:

1. According to 'Ratings and You', the post which is recommended for all newbies to read before posting, an 8 in weapons training is: "Hard contact with reasonable safety gear (pain and/or some blood)". It doesn't state anything about using weapons at all. Since I wear a helmet, cup and other sparring gear and come out with bruises and, a few times, a bleeding nose, I found 8 to be quite a suitable rating.

2. If a punch can go through brick, then its obviously strong. I didn't want to repeat my instructor's achievements again so thats why I wrote that. Full contact- "A (full) contact sport is any sport in which significant physical impact force on players, either deliberate or incidental, is allowed for within the rules of the game." WTF rules IS full contact. There are limitations- you can't hit the groin for example- but for the bits you can hit, you can hit it as hard and as often as you like...

Peace! :icon_clow

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 5:24am

WTF rules state no head punching, no kicking with the shin, no kicking the legs, no knees, no elbows, no lifting the knee to block an attack ... etc.

No excessive contact is in there too...

It is not full contact.

So you really think because you use gear in empty handed sparring you get an 8 in WEAPONS INSTRUCTION ?

**Katriona1992** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 5:46am

Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey

WTF rules state no head punching, no kicking with the shin, no kicking the legs, no knees, no elbows, no lifting the knee to block an attack ... etc.

No excessive contact is in there too...

It is not full contact.

So you really think because you use gear in empty handed sparring you get an 8 in WEAPONS INSTRUCTION ?

No excessive contact is only mentioned in ITF rules...not WTF. You get a warning or even a disqualification for injuring/knocking out your opponent in ITF matches but in your typical WTF match not hitting hard enough= no points. Also, yes, I'd admit anytime that there are alot of rules in WTF but so are there you in other arts. You are not allowed to go for the head in kyokushin karate, neither are you allowed to punch in bjj or judo. However, all three of the arts I listed are still seen as full contact arts...

As for weapons instruction...I started off by giving it N/A and then, later, a measly 1. However, after reading the rating guide, I realized that it was not the case against the guidelines. So I changed it. Personally, I don't agree that hard contact using fists and kicks only should be considered weapons instruction either...

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 5:49am

Fix your scores and stop being dense please.

Originally Posted by Katriona1992

No excessive contact is only mentioned in ITF rules...not WTF. You get a warning or even a disqualification for injuring/knocking out your opponent in ITF matches but in your typical WTF match not hitting hard enough= no points. Also, yes, I'd admit anytime that there are alot of rules in WTF but so are there you in other arts. You are not allowed to go for the head in kyokushin karate, neither are you allowed to punch in bjj or judo. However, all three of the arts I listed are still seen as full contact arts...

As for weapons instruction...I started off by giving it N/A and then, later, a measly 1. However, after reading the rating guide, I realized that it was not the case against the guidelines. So I changed it. Personally, I don't agree that hard contact using fists and kicks only should be considered weapons instruction either...

**Katriona1992** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 5:59am

Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey

Fix your scores and stop being dense please.

I would...if there is actually a valid reason. I have already altered them twice or thrice so its not like I am afraid to do so or something

***jnp*** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 8:16am

Originally Posted by Katriona1992

1. According to 'Ratings and You', the post which is recommended for all newbies to read before posting, an 8 in weapons training is: "Hard contact with reasonable safety gear (pain and/or some blood)". It doesn't state anything about using weapons at all. Since I wear a helmet, cup and other sparring gear and come out with bruises and, a few times, a bleeding nose, I found 8 to be quite a suitable rating.

We assume that you have enough common sense to know that, "Hard contact with reasonable safety gear" under the weapons header means "hard contact with weapons". If there is no weapons training at your school, put down N/A in the box.

Originally Posted by Katriona1992

2. If a punch can go through brick, then its obviously strong. I didn't want to repeat my instructor's achievements again so thats why I wrote that. Full contact- "A (full) contact sport is any sport in which significant physical impact force on players, either deliberate or incidental, is allowed for within the rules of the game." WTF rules IS full contact. There are limitations- you can't hit the groin for example- but for the bits you can hit, you can hit it as hard and as often as you like...

Notice the part I put in bold. "on players". We could care less about breaking bricks or boards. They don't hit back.

What you're saying in your review is that students spar at full force on a regular basis. No holding back, no pulling of kicks or punches. In our experience, there are very few TKD dojangs that train this way. Hence our skepticism about your claim of "full contact".

**Katriona1992** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 9:29am

okay, fair enough. I took down the weapons instruction bit...thanks for the heads up jnp!

as for the full contact- tis true. Just last week, I made a friend of mine cry because I accidently kicked her in the chin (I was raising my leg up for an axe kick and she suddenly lunged forwards). I know its rare in America, having lived in Brooklyn before, but in Hong Kong it is very common to spar each and every lesson and to be allowed, heck, even encouraged by the instructors to kick your opponent without mercy (as long as they are at least the same rank as you, of course).

For our testing, board breaking is neccessary along with sparring. For example, for my 5th gup test, I had to kick through a board with a width of one and a half inches. I also had to spar for three rounds with WTF rules. Failure to break the board OR to get two points in your six minutes of sparring will result in a fail. Points aren't awarded if your feet just rubbed against the hogu/helmet. It only counts if a solid thud is heard.

**Katriona1992** · Posted On: 10/11/2010 9:32am

Originally Posted by jnp

We assume that you have enough common sense to know that, "Hard contact with reasonable safety gear" under the weapons header means "hard contact with weapons". If there is no weapons training at your school, put down N/A in the box.

Notice the part I put in bold. "on players". We could care less about breaking bricks or boards. They don't hit back.

What you're saying in your review is that students spar at full force on a regular basis. No holding back, no pulling of kicks or punches. In our experience, there are very few TKD dojangs that train this way. Hence our skepticism about your claim of "full contact".

Slightly out of topic, but the only school I have been to whilst in America was ATA affliated (ATA Brooklyn Park).....are the majority of American taekwondo schools like that as well?

I notice that a lot of people on this forum diss taekwondo :eusa_eh: