Posted On:10/04/2010 12:24am
Originally Posted by judoka_uk
Hurt him then tell him if he ever crosses the line and unnecesarily injuries a woman for his own gratification again he will be going home with his limbs in a sling.
Its that simple, that kind of bully behaviour against women can only be corrected through force and punishiment. There's no point in trying to 'talk it out' or whatever, you kick their arse as brutally and as excessively as you can and then you drag their manhandled body into a corner and give them a completely un-ambiguous dressing down. If they leave and never come back then great you've protected the welfare of your students and eliminated a problem. If they reform and sort their life out even better and you must then support and encourage them. If they continue being a dickhead then make sure the instructor is aware or if you are the instructor just ensure that the dickhead keeps having his practices picked for him and that he keeps getting matched with the hardest practices and isn't allowed anywhere near the beginners or women and that the hard practices know that their job is to put the idiot through the mill.
We practice combat sports and sometimes you have to emphasise the harsher aspects of combat over the more gentiel. I have personally stepped in to randori to deal with students who I thought weren't treating female practice partners properly and then. afterwards, given them a talking to on how much of a fuckwit they were being, it solved the problem.
As an instructor the safety and wellbeing of your students is a primary concern and it is a reality that women due to their inherent physical inferiority to men are more susceptible to being abused or bullied in this manner. As such instructors should have an absolute zero tolerance of abuse/mistreatment of women in their classes and take very seriously steps to remedy and erradicate it.
This is pretty much how I feel minus the gender bias. I have had to step in for both so, I don't believe in the " he's a man/boy/guy can take it." Someone that is a bully in training sucks for everyone including the instructor if it isn't reigned in early.
Posted On:10/04/2010 10:47am
Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo
Originally Posted by crappler
Fred Ettish was cool.
Fred Ettish wins his second MMA fight! - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
"Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
pro nonsense self defense
Posted On:10/04/2010 10:57am
Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs
Originally Posted by sweats
We only have 1 "that guy" where I train. I actually like everyone else, which says a lot since I'm generally an antisocial prick.
This guy has trained off an on (mostly off) for a couple years with us. One of his favorite things to do is to say "let's go 40 or 50%", then proceed to go balls out like his life depends on the outcome of the roll. He also loves to give color commentary on his own performance after a roll. If you tap him, you were lucky. If you don't tap him, it's because he was defending well and he's getting much better.
He sits out as hard as he can and lands on her hard enough to fracture her collarbone and dislocate a ton of stuff in her torso. She listed all the injuries, but I didn't understand all her fancy medical terms. Bottom line, this jackass really messed her up bad not during sparring nor even drilling, but just practicing technique.
His later apology to her was "sorry you fell wrong."
It sounds like a huge part of that guy's problem is an inability to take responsibility for his actions. When I was a teenager, I was sparring a woman in her 30s, under continuous sparring rules with chest protectors, and I hit her torso with a roundhouse knee, which moved her chest protector (she used to keep it really loose for some reason) and ended up cracking a rib. I felt like a total asshole and even though there was a gear issue, I shouldn't have used that much force and I always remember that now when I work with a smaller person. Another time as a teenager, I was new to submission grappling and was in someone's guard, and I started to get my posture upright, and they sat up and grabbed me to pull me down. I collapsed on him (just from the knees), and several seconds later my elbow was being cranked on hard for several seconds. I learned the lesson to not slam someone who has you in their guard, and I didn't do it again. I guess I was "that guy" but I was able to see that I did something wrong and should change my behavior. I could make excuses about why it's other people's fault but then I'd still be "that guy" years later.
Posted On:10/04/2010 11:09am
I taught 'that guy.' He was a colored belt that stopped the drill to blab about how he liked doing a back roll more than the drill I'm leading, the one where you drop to a squat, roll back onto your shoulders, roll forward and stand. I got really fed up and just said that I'm trying to show class (karate) some of the basic BJJ drills and warmups I had learned, so do whatever you want and started to leave the front. Then the instructor barked, "What if you are near a wall or stairs or something? Just do it." And got me to continue.
The thing is, at my age and experience, if I'm asked to lead class I have a very short fuse with people mouthing off. I don't need to do this, I'm not getting paid, I don't really give a **** about 'that guy' (other than wanting to kick him) and I'd just as soon work on my stuff - from the point of view of a senior I have much less tolerance than I had when I was a fellow n00b. But now I look back and remember lots of 'that guys' and *grimace* once or twice when I acted the fool.
I wonder if the guy who broke the woman's collarbone can be busted, sued, or at least thrown out of the dojo?
Last edited by patfromlogan; 10/04/2010 11:12am at .
Posted On:10/04/2010 11:19am
Style: Itinerant Wanderer
I've been the one called in to deal with "that guy" a couple of times. One "that guy" liked to roll hard, but generally only with the girls. He's a judo black belt. He should know better. He got to play with the goon squad (me and my brother). The other "that guy" was the white belt who had yet to buy a gi, and yet was correcting all the other new guys in class. He, too, got to play with me, till I decided it was time to quit screwing around and squish him.
Of note, the "that guy" who only liked to roll with the females- I say this not to disparage the females. He'd only roll with the smaller ones who were no threat to him. He didn't like to play with the ones who'd make him work hard (or crush his nuts).
I've met lots of "those guys". Even some of "those girls". Mostly they either get the hint, or wash out. Or, sometimes, they stick around and you have to reinforce the lesson from time to time.
Posted On:10/04/2010 11:33am
meh, I've been called in as 'enforcer' before when a 160lb guy was wailing on a 120lb noob in sparring. Long story short I put him down, but tbh you just end up feeling like an asshole.
beating on 'That Guy' isn't as rewarding as you might think.
"The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
Posted On:10/04/2010 11:34am
Then you're doing it wrong :).
Posted On:10/04/2010 1:15pm
Originally Posted by MMAMickey
beating on 'That Guy' isn't as rewarding as you might think.
That's correct. One 'That Guy,' big and aggressive got slapped purple by a small bb, it needed to be done, however we never saw him again. The bb didn't get mad, but he wouldn't 'honor' the big guy with a punch after 'That Guy' lost his temper and tried to take the bb's head off, just looked a little disgusted and sad as he blocked and slapped.
Posted On:10/04/2010 1:24pm
Style: BJJ (blue), Kempo
"That guy" for me is the 350 lb purple belt who is obviously devastating to roll with, yet goes all out every time (even when I was a white belt), who is also a white crane kung fu black belt who thinks that makes him deadly, and warms up doing kung fu forms before class. Sad part is he has so much weight and BJJ skills that he'll probly never learn his white crane is total ****. He also smells. Bad.
Posted On:10/04/2010 2:43pm
Style: muay thai, BJJ
Our gym tends to get plenty of "that guys". We are one of 3 fight gyms in a university town. We have the most pro's and winning amateur fighters. We get plenty of tough guys out of the bars or from the university. For the most part after a few sessions of getting tooled by the slightly more experienced (or one of the pro's if they are getting overly violent in sparring) they tend to leave.
We did have one "that guy' that sticks out in my mind. Our gym is owned/coached by the guy who runs the biggest summer party. The security is all fighters out of our gym. While doing security they had to toss out a drunk who had become belligerent. Of the four guys who threw him out 3 were larger amateur fighters and a much smaller (and a feminine) top pro. The guy proceeded to point at the three larger guys and say "I wouldn't F with you" and then pointed to our smaller pro and says "I would f with you."
Fast forward three months. This same gentleman shows up to one of our beginner technique/light sparring classes. None of the gentlemen who threw him out were present (but the instructor was around/saw what happened). Our gym has an open policy to forgive people for past discretions around town if they are humble about it. Therefore, he was allowed to stay and learn.
After being shown a simple jab, right cross, inside leg kick, rear leg kick (to your opponents rear leg) he started to correct both the instructor and his drill partner. His corrections were horrible, he literally insisted that you almost "hop" on your leg kicks, not spin on the balls of your feet. He corrected the straight right by saying your feet should not move (and therefore keep your hips stationary).
After being told to shut up a few times he stops. We move to light sparring. As I was the most experienced outside of the instructor (who was recovering from a rib injury), I am paired with him first. We are told to go light (technique light). Less than 30 seconds into round he starts throwing bombs. After a few slips and shots to the body he slows down a bit. After our round he told everyone to "go slow" because "he was winded". He would pull the same thing he would with me. However, some of our newer guys were getting beat up pretty bad. Again, his ass was chewed.
Fast Forward (again) to the next night. This night was straight grappling from our knees. He continues to try and give people advice (what a surprise that he advocated rubber guard....even for short legged guys without flexibility). He proceeds to get tapped by even our newest guys by really basic techniques.
Final fast forward. The class is is being taught by our smaller pro that this gentlemen said "he would F with". As soon as this guy shows up, the pro asks him if he remembers saying this. He indicates that he did. The pro asks him if he is ready to "f with him." He is. The pro proceeds to beat the living hell out of this cocky jackass. They went for one 5 minute rounds. The guy made it 1 minute before he was on his knees. The pro continued to pepper him while on one knee (not hard).
After the round, the pro pleasently told him that he could stick around and learn BUT he had to shut up and learn. The guy told him that he had plenty to teach. He REFUSED to just shut up and learn. He even indicated that the pro could learn some things from.
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