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  1. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 11:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickapoo View Post
    Well then you were misleading. What you should have said was 'I want to look like a bodybuilder but be in shape like a fighter', to which I offer the following: if you figure it out, let me know.
    Seriously. The fact Mariusz Pudzianowski dropped 50lbs in his training is evidence of how hard the training is.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  2. Kickapoo is offline
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    Sick double leg.

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 11:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, blood, don't think we're trying to be intentionally cruel or crass towards you. We're just trying to tell you that while fight training can be fun (for you or masochists, I would suppose), long-term it is going to be stressful on your body and most likely your mind and mood.
  3. blood riot iori is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 12:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    3. not really.

    Yes really. The numbers don't lie.

    My point is you should get on a structured plan rather than just freewheeling it.

    as for what i've been doing for triceps, mainly diamond pushups both inclined and normal, and chair dips (remember this is at home, so i have no dip station here), generally doing an equal number of each.

    Yeah, this is just more pushing with minimal pulling.

    4. you can believe it or not, it makes no difference to me. I didn't say i was a professional body builder, i just said i did body building, as in i used to lift specifically for that, to gain muscle and size, then i got into shotokan and supplemented that with weights.

    That's not bodybuilding, it's simply lifting for size. Bodybuilding refers specifically to the practice of bodybuilding, which is sculpting the body in terms of the ideal proportions precribed by bodybuilding to include, size, balance, symmetry, flow, definition and conditioning. It's one of the more abused terms in training, right up there with "weightlifting" when referring to weight training.

    For future reference, what you engaged in was weight training, not bodybuilding.


    As you've stated, you've got way too many goals going on at once.

    3. i was under the impression that a plan that consists of increasing the repititions every night in both pulling and pushing movements with a specific goal in mind (to reach 100 in a pulling and 250 in a pushing movement) was a structured plan :(

    I guess you and i have a different idea of what the term "minimal" means. I can not nor will i ever be able to do the same number of pulling motions that i can of a pushing motion. I can get tired with 100 pullups, but it takes around 250 for me to get tired of pushups. I don't see a purpose of doing 100 pullups and then only 100 pushups if it means i'm not going to be stressing my chest enough to grow/get stronger, that's all i was saying.

    4...well...um...your face is weight lifting :( Lol fair enough sir, fair enough.

    lol i guess i will Kickapoo, if i figure it out that is ^_^

    And don't worry, i don't view anything you guys are saying as cruel, i came here posting a thread asking for advice and help, and i expect to get just that, which you guys are providing :) I'm not a 16 year old "zomg how dare you insult my fighting skillz, I HAZ TAPOUT SHIRT!!" homo that thinks he's hot **** because he does this or that. When i post somewhere asking for help, i expect to get it, and i have, therefore i view nothing as cruel or insulting :D

    Emevas, then i offer to you the following question sir, since you know alot more about this then i do, and now you have an idea of my goals at least:

    What should i be doing? Do you have an idea of a routine i could follow or a specific schedule? Basically my mma training takes place monday/wednesday, and saturday, my gym training was taking place tuesday, thursday, and saturday. How can i make this work to where i can still incorporate my shotokan training (i'm not talking about 2 hours a day every day, when i say working shotokan skills i might mean i take 1-2 things and drill it for a while when i do it) into all this? There must be a way i can do it without overtraining while still not making my body look like Tim Silvia :/
  4. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 4:27am

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     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.stronglifts.com
    This is probably the best source for weight training I can give you without going out of my way. If you're actually training regularly at a fight gym you may want to stop using the bodyweight exercises at the end because your training should be increasing yor work capacity.

    for conditioning, there are no shortcuts and the only way you're gonna be anywhere near fight fit is to train at a fight gym, you know, with fighters and stuff.

    and stop practicing 'shotokan skills' for now. Trust me I have a 1st Dan in shotokan and practicing that on the regular will only slow own your progress at the MMA gym.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  5. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 7:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    enough to grow/get stronger, that's all i was saying.

    These are two entirely different goals that you've grouped together. If the goal is strength, you have to knock off the high rep stuff. Hell, even it it's growth it's not optimal.

    You are stressing them equally in terms of fatigue, yes, but the volume is uneven, especially when you factor in the additional pressing work you are doing with your compounded tricep work.

    When I say a "structered plan", I mean something put together by a qualified expert.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. blood riot iori is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 11:30am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    http://www.stronglifts.com
    This is probably the best source for weight training I can give you without going out of my way. If you're actually training regularly at a fight gym you may want to stop using the bodyweight exercises at the end because your training should be increasing yor work capacity.

    for conditioning, there are no shortcuts and the only way you're gonna be anywhere near fight fit is to train at a fight gym, you know, with fighters and stuff.

    and stop practicing 'shotokan skills' for now. Trust me I have a 1st Dan in shotokan and practicing that on the regular will only slow own your progress at the MMA gym.
    why specifically does it slow down your progress in MMA? (i'm not doubting i'm simply curious since you have experience in both)

    Emevas:

    i suppose that's true, but when i've gone from being able to do 3 pullups in a set, up to 8-10, and do literally 3x as many reps total in a night as i could do before, as well as increasing the width of my back, how does that not justify as getting stronger/growing? Again i'm not arguing or doubting you guys, i'm just putting my points out there and trying to learn your thought processes :D
  7. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 11:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blood riot iori View Post
    why specifically does it slow down your progress in MMA? (i'm not doubting i'm simply curious since you have experience in both)
    Because shotokan striking mechanics are bad. Real bad, at least in comparison to punches from boxing or kicks and knees from muay thai.

    In short, by continuing to practice shotokan you are simply preserving all of the bad striking habits you have instead of un-learning them.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 11:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Want to train like a fighter here is what you do
    first read every last word on this page
    http://www.exrx.net/
    so that you have an understanding of exercise
    Then Train Judo x2 a week Bjj x2 a week and Boxing/kick boxing x2 a week all at a gym with a qualified instructor.
    That will get you into shape and give you a nice well rounded skill set.
  9. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 12:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: comparison shopping

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    size is not strength
    reps is not strength

    moving a heavier thing than you moved yesterday is strength
  10. blood riot iori is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 12:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    Because shotokan striking mechanics are bad. Real bad, at least in comparison to punches from boxing or kicks and knees from muay thai.

    In short, by continuing to practice shotokan you are simply preserving all of the bad striking habits you have instead of un-learning them.
    hmm. Bad? Eh i guess that's a matter of opinion, i've had a few situations where i've actually had to use shotokan (i'm not referring to a fight, where both people are aware they're going to be getting punched and kicked and agree to it), i'm talking actual "hey bitch give me your money ************", "**** you i'm not giving you ****" *commence actual fight* and had no issue whatsoever applying said "bad mechanics" in order to win. No one likes eating multiple punches to the solar plexus and mouth when they go to grab you. Not saying this would fly in an mma match, but like i said, i'm not personally interested in going to fight, i just want to gain the fitness that i would if i were training like i was.

    But on the flip side i see what you're saying, there are quite a staggering amount of differences between shotokan and say boxing and MT like you mentioned. The kicking i do agree with 100% though, other then the side kick, i haven't been able to successfully apply a single kick i've learned in shotokan as well as i've been able to apply the kicks i've learned from the muay thai aspect of MMA. I have no qualms with the punching though, i hpe you don't think i'm sitting there in a back stance waiting for you to lunge at me so i can throw a perfectly timed knife hand or lunge at you from across the room to hit you with a lunge punch lol. That's just shenanigans and i'd never even consider doing such a thing, in the context of mma or on the street.

    I have also learned to throw significantly better knees having done this then i did in shotokan like you mentioned.

    I think the big issue here is conflicting styles. Shotokan is most certainly a self defense style over a combat sport style.

    I guess you guys are right, i just have too many conflicting goals at the same time :(

    Lindz: sure, but moving a heavy object further then i could the day before (i.e. myself in this case) is strength. And how is reps not related to strength? You're telling me if i could only do 3 pullups the week before, and now i can do 6, that i'm not stronger then i was before? While my weight may not fluctuate enough to really be considered "heavier", i've always been under the impression then if i'm moving this object with better form and through a greater range of motion then i could before, then i'm getting stronger, i.e. if i can only do partial pullups at one point, now i can do full ROM pullups with the same weight, i'm getting stronger.

    goodlun:

    i'll check that link in a bit, i'm getting over a cold and i'm going to go take a nap so i'll check it when i get back on.
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