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  1. bigstu31s is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 9:47am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo rant (just a small rant though)

    Some of you may have read some of my other posts on Judo and BJJ but for those who havenít allow me to summarise.

    I took up Judo in February of this year after a 7 hiatus from Martial Arts.
    Whilst my Judo club was closed for the summer holidays I decided to do some BJJ but only intended to do this when my Judo Club was closed and the BJJ instructor was cool with that.
    However Iíve enjoyed my BJJ so much that Iím going to try and train both from now on.

    Anyway my first lesson of Judo since the summer holidays was last week and my instructors knew that I had been training BJJ. Whilst doing some light Newaza I gave up mune-gatame to go for Tate-shiho-gatme or the mount but Uke trapped my leg in half guard and at this point my instructor said I was silly to give up mune-gatame as in a competition I could have held it for 25 seconds and got a win. Now Uke was about half my size so pinning him down wouldnít have been much of a problem but this is practice and as far as Iím concerned practice is when you try submissions or transitions from one hold in to another and if they donít work then it doesnít matter.

    Now I like my club and my instructors so Iím not about to leave but I think Judo has a problem if the training is so focused on competition. I did a little Judo many years ago and remember the Newaza to be much more like the BJJ Iím currently doing in that you just rolled and tried submissions for about 5 minutes before changing partners. When a competition was approaching the instructor would maybe focus on holds and remind us that a certain technique was not legal in competition and at least this way your Newaza was more flowing.

    I just wanted to know how some of the other Judokaís do Newaza and if my experience is common or has my Instructor just a got a bee in his bonnet about me doing BJJ.
  2. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 10:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're reading an awful lot into a single comment. They might have just been telling you about the difference between judo and bjj competition rules or something.
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 10:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just made the transition to BJJ from Judo(because I moved the Judo club I went to was a much higher caliber gym them I am in now).
    When we did Newaza at the club if we had a pin we would hold it. Part of it is the philosophy of train in the way you are going to use it. You also did the little guy a disservice by not allowing him a chance to try and escape your pin. All and all I was very happy with the Judo Ne Waza. Despite being vastly out of shape from a 2 year break I am keeping the BJJ guys on their toes mostly because they are not use to the speed in which I go to make transitions and sub attempts.
    Good luck the cross training should be really awesome.
  4. Gidi is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 11:16am


     Style: Judo (noob) & BJJ (noob)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Have you considered that he simply wants you to train the pins as well as submissions.
    People tend to forget the importance of pins and holds, not only because they can get you the ippon, but because they are no less a part of judo than any other waza.
    At lease that's how I see it.
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 1:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You did not do anything wrong, but should follow the advice of your instructor. I suggest you hold the pin for a count of 25, then transition. If the guy on bottom is smaller or less experienced, don't crush them, let them have a chance to escape, THEN, as they attempt to escape, transition to another pin or a submission. That way you have a obvious reason to transition, you practice BOTH your pins AND your transitions.

    Judo ne waza randori typically you do not pin a guy for the whole 5 (or whatever) minutes, but would do what I suggest above. Real Judo ne waza randori is really more like rolling in BJJ, but without the positional hierarchy. When I randori,I don't care which pin I have, or if I'm on bottom or top.

    I do not like at all having anybody on my back, though, and avoid that unless I am practicing escapes from that position. It's not a good habit to let guys on your back or to turtle, unless you are practicing that specifically.

    Ben
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 2:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I suggest you hold the pin for a count of 25, then transition. If the guy on bottom is smaller or less experienced, don't crush them, let them have a chance to escape, THEN, as they attempt to escape, transition to another pin or a submission. That way you have a obvious reason to transition, you practice BOTH your pins AND your transitions.
    Ben
    Good sound advice as always. I would also think it would also be ok to maybe not hold it for a full 25 seconds if the guy on the bottom has "given up" on his escape attempts.
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 2:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Good sound advice as always. I would also think it would also be ok to maybe not hold it for a full 25 seconds if the guy on the bottom has "given up" on his escape attempts.
    Sure, I usually do not hold it for 25 seconds, but will loosen the hold so the guy on bottom has a chance to escape. If I get a solid pin, I can hold most people for 25 seconds, although I may have to shift positions in the process.

    One can drill escapes/series of escapes for specific pins for a 25 second time period as an effective method of training outside of normal randori.

    Ben
  8. Tom .C is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 3:04pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Aikido,Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would like to add only one thing to BKR's suggestions. I don't know your coach but when working with a club that is competition oriented, he may tell you random things that will add to your developing strategies. There are many things that will come up in competition and one of them is having an advantage on a very strong player and losing that advantage with an unnecessary transition. I wasn't there though, and winning isn't always the most important thing in Judo. Having fun is.
  9. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/28/2010 3:47pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to add to the noise - it's also helpful to train transitions for when they make sense. For randori as others have said once you've proven the hold is secure, nobody is learning anything. You can then try the transition, and while you're doing that uke gets to try to use that opportunity to escape. Win-win. Alternately you can wait for a sensible moment to transition - for example uke will often try to brige out of mune-gatame, then you can use that action to help transition you into something more secure.
  10. bigstu31s is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2010 6:04am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I may be reading more in to this than I should be but after training BJJ I'm finding Judo very "stop start".
    The Judo club I go to is very small and only has a handfull of seniors so whenever you roll you have an instructor watching you at all times. Whilst this can be a good thing, almost like having a private lesson, the instructor will literally stop us everytime a little mistake is made and by the time he has explained it all you don't really get anytime to do proper randori either on the ground or standing.
    Their rationale behind this is that they want us to be more technical than physical. I guess I just enjoy physical more
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