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  1. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2010 8:13pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    That's the worst part. They don't do this in the field. They do it at home to save themselves the trouble of cleaning a weapon properly, because unscented shaving cream supposedly will dry a weapon out and pull all the carbon out of the metal. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it is a very popular rumor.

    What can tell you is that when people do it and then don't immediately clean it all out, it fucks the weapon up pretty badly. We just had to turn in a 240 that was green on the inside due to some shaving cream treatment that a couple privates tried to do to it. Which is hilarious, since they probably walked right past the solvent tank on the way out the door to buy the shaving cream.
    That's just...

    ...wow...
  2. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2010 9:45pm


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    The two worst things I saw related to weapons cleaning during my time in the army were these:

    When I was armorer for my MI detachment we shared an arms room with a supply unit down the road. Someone turned in a rifle that had been cleaned with what must have been a drill attached to the cleaning rods and a bore brush. The rifling was torn to crap.

    The second is my HUMINT team leader when I was in Iraq. She knew I had been an armorer in my old unit so when her pistol stopped working she brought it to me. Well... half an hour later, I've finally got it apart and I'm realizing that the only thing wrong with this particular M9 is it hasn't been maintained in I have no idea how long. (Had to be less than 9 months, since that's about how long we'd been in country at that time.) By the time I was done restoring it to working order I had spent 3 hours and was seeing red, since this was the only weapon she was assigned and we were outside the gates every day. I reamed her out in front of the company commander and somehow managed to avoid an article 15 from it. Whee-hoo.

    Oh, and back to the tiny pistols and giant battle rifles thing, I'm guessing it has to do with chamber pressures. As the technology has progressed we've seen pistols getting smaller with large rounds and IIRC the .308 is essentially a higher-pressure replacement for 30-06.
  3. chi-conspiricy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 5:27am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After shooting the 6.5 grendel, especially at range, the whole 7.62 vs 5.56 thing seems kindof moot.
  4. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 6:48am

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    Quote Originally Posted by chi-conspiricy View Post
    After shooting the 6.5 grendel, especially at range, the whole 7.62 vs 5.56 thing seems kindof moot.
    How does it perform against hard cover?

    7.62 will smash through a cinder block with ease. 5.56 is stopped dead in it's tracks. How does the 6.5 measure up?
  5. chainpunch is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 8:24am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    How does it perform against hard cover?

    7.62 will smash through a cinder block with ease. 5.56 is stopped dead in it's tracks. How does the 6.5 measure up?

    Cinder block? Are we talking CBS bricks (concrete block system)? If so 5.56 can go through it.

    YouTube - Bullet vs Concrete cinder block.

    It can go through solid blocks a few inches as well.
    Last edited by chainpunch; 10/21/2010 8:25am at . Reason: spell
  6. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 8:43am

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    Quote Originally Posted by chainpunch View Post
    Cinder block? Are we talking CBS bricks (concrete block system)? If so 5.56 can go through it.

    YouTube - Bullet vs Concrete cinder block.

    It can go through solid blocks a few inches as well.
    No, I'm talking about the cinder blocks like those used to make the wall in this video. (I could defeat a red CBS brick with some ciallis and a few pictures of Eva Mendes...)

    YouTube - .458 SOCOM - Turning Cover Into Concealment(TM)

    As you can see 5.56 Nato does #$%-all against it. While the .458 Socom penetrates it after a couple of shots.

    However, I have yet to see any .30 rifle rounds do anything short of demolishing these and whatever is behind them. This includes the intermediate 7.62x39.
  7. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 9:23am


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    As you can see 5.56 Nato does #$%-all against it. While the .458 Socom penetrates it after a couple of shots.
    You did notice that there was sand pouring out of those cinder blocks, right? It seems to me that once they shot up the wall and the sand was very close to done pouring out pretty much anything is going to shatter those blocks. They become a lot more like the blocks in the previous video with no material inside to diffuse the force of the blow.

    EDIT: Don't think I'm defending 5.56mm, just noting a discrepancy between the two videos.
  8. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 9:48am

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    .458 SOCOM is not practical. 6.5 grendel is not practical, considering what it would cost to convert every single weapon over to it, alter production quotas, and then waste billions giving out fat no bid contracts semi-related to the issue. The military will move away from the M16/M4 just as soon as it figures out how to miniaturize railguns, lightsabers, or lasers.

    10 years from now, the standard calibers of the US Military will be:

    50 cal for crew served and sniper systems
    7.62 x 51 for crew served and sniper systems
    5.56 x 45 for whatever M4 derivative we're on
    9mm

    fin
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 11:16am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    .458 SOCOM is not practical. 6.5 grendel is not practical, considering what it would cost to convert every single weapon over to it, alter production quotas, and then waste billions giving out fat no bid contracts semi-related to the issue. The military will move away from the M16/M4 just as soon as it figures out how to miniaturize railguns, lightsabers, or lasers.

    10 years from now, the standard calibers of the US Military will be:

    50 cal for crew served and sniper systems
    7.62 x 51 for crew served and sniper systems
    5.56 x 45 for whatever M4 derivative we're on
    9mm

    fin
    That's nice. I was asking how 6.5 does against a brick wall. I could give a crap what's happening with Lake cities contracts right now. That has nothing to do with me.
  10. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2010 11:19am

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    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    You did notice that there was sand pouring out of those cinder blocks, right?
    errgh... That isn't the only time somebodies tried this on film...

    YouTube - AK 47 vs M16

    Cinder block test at 2.59.

    It's simply a matter of mass. The .30 cal is bigger, heavier, and it will hit harder. Period.
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