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  1. Poofist is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2010 11:43pm


     Style: Escrima

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They can both shove the M16 up their asses.
  2. Shamash is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2010 11:46pm


     Style: ex-Tae Kwon Do

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    Perhaps a contributing reason was the relative cheapness of .223 and 9mm rounds as compared to the cost of using the more expensive .308 and .45 acp bullets. The clip capacity may also have been a factor. My M4 has a 30 round capacity compared to the 20 my FN-FAL has. Recoil probably had something to do with it as well.
  3. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2010 12:26am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    Fixed
    McNamara made the ultimate decision, but I thought I remembered that Stoner advocated for the switch to 5.56x45mm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamash View Post
    Perhaps a contributing reason was the relative cheapness of .223 and 9mm rounds as compared to the cost of using the more expensive .308 and .45 acp bullets. The clip capacity may also have been a factor. My M4 has a 30 round capacity compared to the 20 my FN-FAL has. Recoil probably had something to do with it as well.
    I have no idea what 5.56x45mm cost in the 1960s, but I've heard it said (in some kind of quasi-official report I read some time ago) that the primary reasons for transitioning to the M16 were increased firepower (meaning ammunition capacity) and decreased weight (with regard to what the infantry soldier must carry).
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2010 8:00am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I bet none of you have tried to carry 400 7.62mm + Magazines, in addition to another 400 in link for GPMG as part of your daily load.

    I'm fairly glad of 5.56mm to be honest.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  5. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2010 10:00am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought everyone knew the above!

  6. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2010 10:19am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you shoot someone in the pelvic region, the size of the round doesn't matter.

    ;-)
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  7. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2010 10:39am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fleming was in Naval Intelligence during WWII, but my impression was that he wasn't a field agent, or training officer, so his exposure to weaponry was probably haphazard, and he probably kitted bond out with what sounded good.

    Bond was carrying a 25 caliber pistol, which is simply a horrible round to use for anything other then shooting someone in the back of the head.

    The idea was that bond would carry a weapon more concealable then a standard sized 9 mm when there were not a lot of great choices on the market. Given the time, I might have gone with a colt pony which fired 380. The colt pony was also used by the Shanghai municiple police pre-WWII
  8. Shamash is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2010 3:54pm


     Style: ex-Tae Kwon Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a question for our resident military members. What would you think about changing your battle rifle caliber from a .223 to something a little more bigger like a 6mm, .243, or 25-06? The recoil of those calibers are still light but pack a bigger punch than a .223. Coming from my perspective as a hunter, I can't help but think of a .223 as being underpowered since it's illegal to hunt big game in my state with anything smaller than a 6mm or .243.
  9. Nicko1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/27/2010 12:06am


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning View Post
    Fleming was in Naval Intelligence during WWII, but my impression was that he wasn't a field agent, or training officer, so his exposure to weaponry was probably haphazard, and he probably kitted bond out with what sounded good.
    In the early books, Bond caried a Beretta. A fan named Boothroyd wrote in and called it a "ladies gun", claimed it had a tendency to jam, and recommended the PPK. Fleming was so impressed by the man's diatribe that he had Bond's Beretta jam in From Russia With Love. In the next book, Dr. No, he introduced the service's armorer "Major Boothroyd" who gave Bond virtually the same lecture.

    The problem is that Fleming considered that if he wanted to do research and ****, he never would have quit his day job. Bond is basically Fleming daydreaming.
  10. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/27/2010 12:38pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamash View Post
    I have a question for our resident military members. What would you think about changing your battle rifle caliber from a .223 to something a little more bigger like a 6mm, .243, or 25-06? The recoil of those calibers are still light but pack a bigger punch than a .223. Coming from my perspective as a hunter, I can't help but think of a .223 as being underpowered since it's illegal to hunt big game in my state with anything smaller than a 6mm or .243.
    In my opinion, 5.56 is good enough that it is not worth completely revamping our primary battle rifle just for a slight ballistics improvement, especially taking into consideration the newer 77 grain boat tail rounds that are becoming more and more prevalent on the battlefield. I've been in some pretty good firefights, and none of the AARs afterward included comments like "those guys just didn't die when I shot them with my M4."

    Ironically, the only type of round I've ever heard anyone in the community complaining about for its lack of stopping power is the .50 BMG tungsten core sabot round, which has a tendency to put holes in people and overpenetrate to a ridiculous degree, which results in terrorists not even noticing they've been shot until they bleed out about 30 seconds to a minute after they've been hit.

    I truly believe that the people that complain about these things are making excuses for poor shooting and not taking care of their equipment. It's always easier to blame your equipment than admit the truth (You are a lousy shot) and take steps to fix the actual problem (More time spent doing dry fires, more time at the shoothouse, more time at the range). If you were to listen to some people in the military talk, you might come away with the idea that people in SOCOM are only good at what they do because they have better equipment, not because they make the best of what equipment they do have.

    The people that convince themselves of such things are also usually the first to want whatever the new hotness equipment is. They are the people that claim free floating barrels are absolutely essential for the battlefield, and that crappy magazines and that damned direct gas impingement are to blame for why their rifles are always misfiring. These are the same people that lament the switch from .45 ACP to 9mm as the standard sidearm, even though they'll never be in a situation requiring a sidearm.

    Usually these same people couldn't hit the broad side of a barn anyway, so I doubt a free floating barrel is going to get you on target there, buddy. On top of that, the ones complaining of carbon fouling either never clean their damn weapons, or they clean them too much and damage the components of the rifle. And, for what it's worth, I actually prefer the cheap disposable aluminum magazines to the heavy as **** steel H&K mags or the chintzy magpul ones. I know a lot of other people that do as well.

    The takeaway from all of this, for me at least, is that combat is dynamic, and you don't always know what's going to happen, but more time spent doing dry firing, battle drills, working your tail off, and taking proper care of your equipment will make you far deadlier on the battlefield than gadgets and new ammunition ever could.

    Excuses are for girlymen, panywaists, namby-pambys, etc.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
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