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  1. LarsCG is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 7:26am


     Style: Judo/Roadwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Adjusting SL 5x5: Am I being silly?

    So, yeah... I've been following the SL 5x5 program since early June this year, and think I've made a fairly decent progress.

    However, I found quite soon that I really can't stand some of the complementary excercises, i.e. Inverted Rows (3xF), Pushups (3xF) and Chins/Pullups (3xF) I reckon it's the "to failure" part that annoys me. So I've done what according to the program shouldn't be done: I've adjusted it a bit.

    Instead of the above exercises I'm using Barbell Rows, weighted Dips and weighted Chins/Pullups. Dips and Barbell Rows I can do 5x5 of (15 and 50 kg respectively), Chins/Pullups I'm currently at 5/5/4 with a modest load (5 kg-ish).

    One of the big attractions in using these excercises is that it's way easier to measure progress. Static number of reps, but increasing load...

    My shoulders are nasty today after yesterday's Set B, and I'm starting to worry wether I'm doing too many reps, using too heavy load, or both. I'll continue trying stuff out, and I reckon I'll dial back to 3x5 on Dips and Barbell Rows.

    My main question to you folks is: Is there something obviously, glaringly wrong with my adjustments? How about subtly?

    Regards,
    Lars
  2. Suprore is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 9:23am


     Style: Bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not one of the resident experts, but this was discussed on here pretty recently:

    Adjusting SL 5x5: Am I being silly? - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

    probably not on the first page for you, i have increased post count. Emvas's posts, starting with No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Single Post - Question regarding stronglifts
  3. Lindz is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 12:42pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found to failure was such a nebulous end point that my reps would go up and down at random from session to session. So I set myself a goal number of reps and kept increasing that each session. Had much better progress. When I was able to hit 15 reps on the first set (often happened when the goal was 13 reps per set) I would increase the difficulty.

    For example with pushups I went from flat to incline to dips.
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 2:11pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You just changed the entire purpose of the movements, from building hypertrophy and work capacity in order to ensure future progress on strength training, to just more strength training movements. It doesn't make any sort of logical sense in terms of programming, as you should already be gaining your pushing and pulling strength from the primary movements of the routine, and you will now need to train for work capacity outside of your lifting time.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. LarsCG is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 2:50pm


     Style: Judo/Roadwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm. So the short answer is: Stick to the program.

    @ Lindz: yup, that's a bit of what annoyed me with "to failure" too. I like your way of dealing with it, will give it a shot.

    OK, thanks for your advise guys.
  6. Lindz is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 3:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    You just changed the entire purpose of the movements,
    Me or Lars?
  7. wuss is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 3:28pm


     Style: Boxing newb, HEMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FWLIW, I'm doing an older version of SL that uses barbell rows instead of inverted rows. I've never had a problem with it, although I tend to suck at those more than anything else except the overhead press. Although now I'm considering switching to the newer version after reading this thread.
  8. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2010 4:36pm

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Me or Lars?
    Lars to a greater extent, but you as well. People get too hung up on making progress on the bodyweight work of SL, and I don't quite understand why. It's a strength training program, and as long as you are making progress on the strength training movements, it is working. The bodyweight stuff is there to help prepare your body for continuing strength training progress, not as a separate goal for the program. I would just keep training to failure, whatever that happens to be.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  9. LarsCG is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2010 4:11am


     Style: Judo/Roadwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, from a purely motivational point of view, watching the numbers go up is kind of neat. When I started out I could do approximately 40 / 20 / 15 Pushups even after the main exercises had taken their toll, and had a slight "WTF?"-moment and started looking for alternatives. I reckon it's different now, as the program is getting progressively heavier.

    I think that my main confusion regarding the complementary exercises were/are due to the "low reps, high load" philosophy of the main exercises: "Do these 5x5 and add weight each time, it builds strength rather than volume. Oh, except this one which you do 1x5 (Deadlift). Oh, and except these exercises which you do 3 sets to failure with bodyweight only, even though it flies slightly in the face of the stated point with the other exercises."

    I reckon it's mentioned in the material on the stronglifts website and e-book, but I've managed to deftly dodge understanding that little point about hypertrophy/work capacity.

    Anyhow, thank you all. I'll likely be going back to a more "standard" SL schema - my shoulders are still quite nasty (which last night's grinding of seoinage-variations rudely reminded me of).

    Regards,
    Lars
  10. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2010 10:30am

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's actually not mentioned in the e-book. Medhi pretty much created the routine on accident, and the only reason for the push-ups and inverted rows is because dips and bent over rows were too tough for people. However, the present version is way superior because of the added benefit to work capacity and hypertrophy.

    Edit: As for the 1x5 on deadlifts, that's due to the fact you are squatting every workout, and the deadlift puts a heavy strain on the CNS as it is.
    Last edited by Emevas; 9/22/2010 11:09am at .
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
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